Part of the fall ritual is announcements about improved bus service here and there in the region, as TransLink determines where the transit-rider bulges are. This year, service is going up for a number of heavy commuter routes south of the Fraser, but other, less-used routes are being reduced, some to once an hour. Yikes, won’t be building up any customers there! (You can read all the changes here, which make great nerd material. Alert people will have noticed there what the City of Vancouver announced today, which is that Robson Square is going to remain closed to traffic even after Labour Day.)
And, as the summer doldrums end, we are back to thrashing around about how to pay for transit. As my story in yesterday’s Globe detailed, we’re going to have the privilege as of Sept. 17 of commenting on a new 10-year plan, one that is supposed to include a solution for the Highway 1 bus, among other projects.
112 responses so far ↓
1 brilliant // Aug 29, 2012 at 6:34 pm
So Vision throws No 5 riders under the bus, so to speak?
2 Bill Lee // Aug 29, 2012 at 6:49 pm
Hmm. Does that mean it will no longer be a trolley bus, as I don’t remember Burrard street having trolley wires for the new routing?
3 Bill Lee // Aug 29, 2012 at 7:02 pm
“Alert people”
I dont think that many people get the “Corporate Communicatons” from the City of Vancouver.
August 29
http://vancouver.ca/news-calendar/robson-st-pedestrian-plaza-to-remain-open.aspx
….”City staff will continue to discuss a permanent closure of the block with key stakeholders, including the Downtown Vancouver Business Improvement Association and TransLink, before reporting to Council later this fall on a permanent closure.”
And how will an extra long block affect ambulance and fire routes, though they usually have maps and electronic best-routing devices.
4 Robert // Aug 30, 2012 at 5:34 am
Bill, Burrard has had trolley wires for years. they have been using burrard for years
5 boohoo // Aug 30, 2012 at 8:44 am
You guys…multi-billion dollar decisions with the future of our entire region in question and all you can do is complain about one block downtown. Pry your eyes south and east if you can bear it and think big picture.
6 Raingurl // Aug 30, 2012 at 9:50 am
Far be it for me to judge but, as a transit rider/pedestrian, I’ve had no trouble getting around this city for 25 years. IMO, there should be no commuter traffic in Downtown Vancouver during business hours. I should be able to transit/walk without the fear of some suburban mommy/daddy putting me in danger every day as they are rushing to get to work.
7 gmgw // Aug 30, 2012 at 12:06 pm
@Raingurl:
You sure you wouldn’t be happier living in, say, a cabin somewhere north of Fort St. James? Sounds like you’re not really cut out for urban life and its basics.
gmgw
8 buzz // Aug 30, 2012 at 12:07 pm
Brilliant: yes No. 5 bus riders will be thrown under the bus; obviously Vision doesn’t care about transit. That block means a straight trip to Granville/Georgia for direct access to both Canada & Expo lines for Westenders (many seniors), as well as the Bay and soon-to-be Nordstrom stores.
The re-route as it is now eliminates half of Robson Street for bus riders; for emergency vehicles it means more time to detour around Robson Square.
9 rico // Aug 30, 2012 at 12:45 pm
@gmgw
You seem to feel an urban environment is about cars I would argue it is about people. Plenty of examples of successful urban environments with limited vehicle use. You should set your expectations higher.
10 Guest // Aug 30, 2012 at 1:52 pm
Burrard Bridge doesn’t have trolley bus wires…
11 waltyss // Aug 30, 2012 at 2:20 pm
@gmgw #7
I second what rico says @#8. By the same token you might be happier in a small tent on the I-5 in downtown Seattle.
@Bill Lee I would think ambulances and firetrucks, even to the extent they would use Robson between Hornby and Howe could detour either north to Georgia or south to Smithe depending on the direction they are taking.
Didn’t you answer your own question in any event since they will have GPS type route mapping.
12 Raingurl // Aug 30, 2012 at 2:38 pm
@gmgw // Aug 30, 2012 at 12:06 pm #7
You’re right, I would be happier in a cabin somewhere but definitely not up North. Give me a Gulf Island or maybe back to Vancouver Island and I’d be one happy camper……literally! Unfortunately, I have 25 PLUS years until retirement and the only place there’s good paying work is in the city. I AM working toward that cabin and a little dog too…….I stand by my statement, cut the cars (and the cheese) and give me my wHine. hehe.
13 Raingurl // Aug 30, 2012 at 2:41 pm
PS, I saw the coolest thing coming home from camping. We were driving (yes, driving) through Mission and a police car had the power to shut off ALL green lights. Each intersection had a sensor that shut off ALL green lights to traffic. They just sailed right through because ALL the lights were RED! YOUR tax dollars working hard to save us.
14 Terry M // Aug 30, 2012 at 2:49 pm
The stupidity of this Vision Vancouver politicians have no limits. But the hypocrisy and the wickedness behind all their decisions is unbelievable !
Not another fake trial please!
Don’t tell me anyone believes this lie with keeping Robson square for some time to see who’s impacted. It’s the people who have no choice but live outside DT due to unaffordability and who come in to work every day!
But of course eff them first, instead of Vision and their puppet Robertson green agenda.
Geez!
15 Bill // Aug 30, 2012 at 3:21 pm
One interesting aspect of the Translink financial saga is the fact that they are facing a revenue shortfall in the gas tax – not because fewer people are driving but because some have found ways to avoid the tax through cross border/out of region gas purchases.
This should be a red flag to the tax and spend crowd particularly in view of the likely NDP win Provincially next May. You should never underestimate the ability of people (or corporations) to find ways to avoid paying tax. And the higher the tax, the higher the incentive to do so.
16 Bill Lee // Aug 30, 2012 at 3:25 pm
Maybe we should get off the Robson Street mall stretch.
The VAGallery leaves and it is not quiet on the north side anymore.
I have never seen a picture of the Robson “pillows” in the rain.
Besides, this all sounds like the summer closures of Yonge street in the olden days. Didn’t work there either.
Back to the Bridge (tolling for us, and others)
…”That could help the province avoid the embarrassment of opening the Port Mann Bridge in December – built on a promise that it would accommodate rapid transit for the first time – without any buses running in the special lanes designed for it.” said the story.
Aha, empty lanes and no faster trips as the empties are reserved for public transit. Oops.
Instead the Village Vision chatterati of Vancouver talk about Central all the time.
And meanwhile Toronto, as Madame Bula retweeted:
“- The TTC is ramping up service on 34 routes this fall to meet its growing ridership.”
17 boohoo // Aug 30, 2012 at 3:26 pm
Bill,
Source for this?
“not because fewer people are driving but because some have found ways to avoid the tax through cross border/out of region gas purchases.”
Anecdotal does not count.
18 Mira // Aug 30, 2012 at 3:46 pm
Separated bike lanes making the traffic to back up for blocks. Burrard Bridge / Street left right turns a nightmare. gases spewing into the air from the bumper to bumper snail moving cars in and out of Downtown, as people need to go to work, businesses need to refill their supplies, people working in Surrey, langley, Delta, Richmond, Coquitlam are returning to their overpriced condos… for the night…
Vision Vancouver name (brand) have become synonym with Death of any form of transportation other than bicycles. Down with the viaducts, screw the North/West/East side Vancouver commuters, it’s the last days of summer and there is no relief in sight from this bunch of moronic fools. Good timing for the Robson Square closure announcement, eh!? Let’s do that. Displace and disrupt so many people’s lives so that His Highness Gregor and his Lady Ballem could feel fulfilled. “Something is very rotten in this city!” I heard one say today. That would be the understatement of the year! Prepare your pitchforks people of Vancouver, that’s the only way to see this arrogant bunch on their way out. Plenty of village life outside the city limits. Done!
19 Mira // Aug 30, 2012 at 3:53 pm
Almost forgot. I think I saw former DofPlanning Brent Toderan today in Yaletown. Riding a bike that looked homemade … to me (I could only assume it cost a bundle), with a messenger bag across his chest, shorts, sandals… OMG, unshaven… to say he looked bumish would be a compliment. I wonder what he’s doing these days.
I hope it wasn’t him. And yes, if you were wondering, he wore a helmet!
The higher they are, the harder they fall, eh?
20 Warren // Aug 30, 2012 at 4:00 pm
Anybody who drives more than 15 minutes each way to save a few bucks on gas has their priorities messed up.
21 Warren // Aug 30, 2012 at 4:03 pm
Mira, I have sad news for you. Vision is moving up and on to the Provincial Legislature. You sound like you might be more at home in Alberta.
22 waltyss // Aug 30, 2012 at 5:32 pm
@Warren, given Mira’s well known racist proclivities, and her moronic right stance on just about anything, Alabama or Mississippi might be more appropriate. No need for bike lanes there as they need roads for vehicles to escape the hurricanes.
23 Richard // Aug 30, 2012 at 5:40 pm
@Bill Lee
No evidence that the majority of the gas tax shortage is due to people refilling outside the region. People are driving less than expected as witnessed by the Golden Ears toll revenue being lower than expected. Young people are also driving less.
Per person gas usage in Washington and Oregon is at a fifty year low. I suspect this not because people are driving up to BC to refill
http://blog.oregonlive.com/commuting/2012/08/study_oregon_washington_driver.html
24 Chris Keam // Aug 30, 2012 at 5:43 pm
“gases spewing into the air from the bumper to bumper snail moving cars in and out of Downtown”
The sophisticated electronics of modern fuel injected cars minimize fuel use and fumes when idling. That, along with the growing number of hybrids which don’t emit exhaust at all in stop and go city traffic make this “rationale” against non-motorized transportation amenities a bit out-of-date. It would be a good argument 50 years ago though!
It’s also instructive to count just how many cars constitute ‘bumper-to-bumper’ traffic. The reality is that traffic backed up for blocks and blocks, esp. when the vast majority of vehicles are single occupant, is a situation that’s only impacting a small fraction of commuters at any one time. I’m sure the critics of bike lanes would never suggest kow-towing to small numbers of road users, amirite?
As always, it’s good to point out that the vast majority of traffic delays are caused by automobile accidents which create lengthy delays affecting thousands on major routes such as Hwy 1. Better driving training and safer driving practices have great potential to reduce accidents and the lost $$ and productivity they represent. Targeting this area of driver behaviour remains the most logical way to tackle recurring traffic congestion on crucial roadways.
25 Bill Lee // Aug 30, 2012 at 6:22 pm
@ Richard // Aug 30, 2012 at 5:40 pm #22
Not me at Aug 30, 2012 at 3:21 pm #14
Likely the NPA architect Bill McCreery (See billmcreery.com )
And maybe people are driving less. When was the drop in gas taxes noted? Summer 3 months? Or changing jobs for shorter commute? Or rather the guesstimate was wrong in the first place.
If you read the sacred text linked above by Madame Bula of this salon:
….”TransLink has been staggering from one financial blow to another since spring, when Premier Christy Clark rejected a series of funding solutions aimed at paying for $30-million worth of transit improvements due to begin south of the Fraser River.
That was just after a new gas-tax increase had kicked in to cover the $40-million cost to start construction of the Evergreen Line in the region’s northeast sector.
Once Ms. Clark turned down a vehicle levy, a regional carbon tax and another gas-tax increase, regional mayors then backed away from their previous commitment to increase property taxes.” [ more ]
26 Agustin // Aug 30, 2012 at 7:11 pm
@ “gases spewing into the air from the bumper to bumper snail moving cars in and out of Downtown”
If some of the people driving those cars had taken a different mode of transportation (walking, cycling, transit), the air quality would be better!
It is actually the cars that spew those gasses into the air, after all.
27 Bill Lee // Aug 30, 2012 at 7:16 pm
Back in March 2012
Stuck with high gas prices, drivers just pump less
By CHRIS KAHN and TOM KRISHER
Associated Press Writers
Americans have pumped less gas every week for the past year.
During those 52 weeks, gasoline consumption dropped by 4.2 billion gallons, or 3 percent, according to MasterCard SpendingPulse. The
decline is longer than a 51-week slide during the recession.
The main reason: higher gas prices. The national average for a gallon of gas is $3.89, the highest ever for this time of year, and experts
say it could be $4.25 by late April. As a result, Americans are taking fewer trips to restaurants and shopping malls. When they take a vacation, they’re staying closer to home.” [ more ]
28 Ned // Aug 30, 2012 at 8:27 pm
The two pish Vision/NDPBC propagandists are out in force:
Warren #20
“Vision is moving up and on to the Provincial Legislature. You sound like you might be more at home in Alberta.”
And Waltysssss #21
“Warren, given Mira’s well known racist proclivities, and her moronic right stance on just about anything, Alabama or Mississippi might be more appropriate.”
I don’t know which of these statements is more arrogant, full of hate in waiting (10 + years in opposition) . You be the judge.
Yes guys, you are in race to the bottom all right! Enjoy.
29 Agustin // Aug 30, 2012 at 9:43 pm
OK, let’s try to get this back on topic a little bit…
If gas tax revenue is down, why don’t we cut funding to the Perimiter road, or any of the highway expansions, instead of cutting public transit?
Car driving is on its way down. As a society, why keep investing in it?
30 waltyss // Aug 30, 2012 at 11:16 pm
Ned, there is no point in debating with someone like you. But I am curious, did you read the racist’s post? And I am full of hate?!?!?! I don’t think so, bud.
31 Boohoo // Aug 30, 2012 at 11:46 pm
@28
Those things are happening, nothing we can do about it now. Take a trip over the alex fraser now and gaze down at the ugly scar ripping along waterfront operty in surrey. Expropriated homes, wildlife corridors destroyed, locking the region into car dependency for generations….but god forbid they close one block downtown….
I don’t know when the region will grow up and look at the facts, but it probably will be too late. We’ve got cars at a low, transit use at a high and we just invest billions in new roads. Billions. It’s absolute lunacy.
32 Julia // Aug 31, 2012 at 3:54 am
Chris#23 – if what you say is true, then why is there such a hate on for the car. Until we stop taking kids to hockey practice, or buying a weeks worth of groceries at one time or having 2 income homes, or… w revert to the bicycle and horse and buggy for larger trips… the car is going to be part of our lives. At the very least – it is going to take 20 years for the changing attitude to work its way through the demographic (much like our new disdain for smoking).
In the mean time, why deliberately set out to frustrate the hell out of a good percentage of the population by forcing something too soon – too fast.
33 Bill // Aug 31, 2012 at 6:36 am
boohoo#16
Someone from Translink was on the Bill Good show and made the comment – Bill neglected to ask him for his sources.
34 boohoo // Aug 31, 2012 at 7:52 am
@Julia
Again, for the 15th time, those who have to drive for whatever reason can/should drive. No on is arguing mom should pick up her two kids from the hockey rink with all their gear on a bike. No one.
It’s all those people, those thousands of people every day that drive to wherever in their car by themselves. Those than can take an alternative but choose not to.
35 boohoo // Aug 31, 2012 at 7:53 am
@32
I heard someone say it somewhere? Sorry, that is the definition of anecdotal.
36 Agustin // Aug 31, 2012 at 8:29 am
@ Julia,
I like the smoking analogy. As you say, attitudes towards smoking have greatly changed over the last 20 (and let’s say 50) years. But did it happen on its own?
Did people suddenly decide to stop smoking at the workplace, or was it mandated?
Did people stop smoking at bars on their own, or was it mandated?
Did many, many people stop smoking because they researched the health problems on their own, or because of a great deal of public education? (Including public money spent on research.)
Did many, many people decide smoking was too expensive on its own, or have the additional taxes helped?
What about the limitations on advertising? The pictures on the cigarette packages?
And yet, along the way, there have been many, many people shouting from the rooftops that all these measures were unnecessary; that they were discriminatory; that they were oppressive.
And smoking is still legal. If you want to smoke, go ahead and smoke. Just be considerate of the effects it has on the people around you.
37 Chris Keam // Aug 31, 2012 at 9:05 am
Julia:
You know I will happily discuss this issue, but I’m not going to be baited by silly and false conjecture such as ‘hate’ being a factor in transportation planning.
If we are playing silly buggers as my parents would call it, then you tell me which ice rink is on a separated downtown lane such as those Mira claims have blocks and blocks of cars impeded by their presence. Point out the practice or game schedule for said rinks, and a correlation to morning and evening weekday rush hours and then we can talk about how bike lanes make life hard for hockey moms.
38 Raingurl // Aug 31, 2012 at 9:15 am
All this gas talk puts me back to 10 years ago as I (again) wonder, why would anyone want to drive to Vancouver every day? I used to do it from my comfy suburb. It took an hour. Two hours a day sitting in traffic trying not to get hit by those idiots that come out of those cushy suburbs with their fake driver’s licences and big ugly SUVs. Really, why would anyone keep putting themselves through that day after day? Take the train. Take a bus. Stop the insanity!
39 gman // Aug 31, 2012 at 9:26 am
Dont worry folks when they finish implementing Agenda 21 and the Wildlands Project nobody will drive anymore,unfortunately nobody will be allowed to go camping or venture out of the city either.We will only be allowed to live packed and stacked in towers along the rail lines.Here is the wildlands map for the US,we will only be allowed in the black dots unless of coarse you have a special pass. http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/agenda21.jpeg
40 Chris Keam // Aug 31, 2012 at 9:41 am
“nobody will be allowed to go camping or venture out of the city either.We will only be allowed to live packed and stacked in towers along the rail lines.”
yeah, because ‘we’ will put up with that and have no say in who governs us and how. Let’s all be drones!
41 gman // Aug 31, 2012 at 10:01 am
CK 39
I find it funny that the drones dont even realize what their fighting for.Poor Raingirl dreams about a cabin in the gulf islands but doesn’t know that will be deemed unsustainable and she will be forced off her dream island and shipped back to the city.Maybe they should do a little homework before jumping on board with every warm and fuzzy sounding cause that comes down the pike.
42 Roger Kemble // Aug 31, 2012 at 10:10 am
No point in bickering over which route goes where or what political party will do it to the town and region to alleviate the hectic commute.
Bike lanes are no solution!
The problem is endemic.
Vancouver is still a sprawling, mid-twentieth century town. More than a change in political good intentions is needed.
So far the political cadre, regardless of labels is showing its self to be grossly inept or worse, bamboozling itself green.
The planning department, with its 160+/- miss-trained personnel, is not up to the job.
Fiddling with a few bus routes, wasting billions on fancy gadgetry is, what do they say, rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic or to up date . . . the Costa Concordia.
Events will always push a reluctant polity to the brink . . .. inevitably . . . painfully. Conservation of energy and finances will force change.
IMHO rearranging the city into manageable villages with a level of autonomy (click on my name to see one plan for making the city manageable) will be more responsive to good planning and living amenity. I firmly believe the best transportation is to plan for less dependency on transportation . . .
http://members.shaw.ca/theyorkshirelad72/working.mount.pleasant.html
. . . and centralize as many essential amenities as conveniently as possible for the surrounding residential community.
Families living in Mission and Abbotsford, Momma and Poppa driving downtown or to Surrey and Tri-cities is absurd.
43 boohoo // Aug 31, 2012 at 10:54 am
gman your apocalyptic visions of a totalitarian state are cute. I wonder why you post here if you actually believe that?
44 Andrew Browne // Aug 31, 2012 at 11:00 am
@ Roger Kemble #41
“IMHO rearranging the city into manageable villages with a level of autonomy … will be more responsive to good planning and living amenity. I firmly believe the best transportation is to plan for less dependency on transportation.”
“Families living in Mission and Abbotsford, Momma and Poppa driving downtown or to Surrey and Tri-cities is absurd.”
More or less agreed. But good luck forcing the issue? People continue to drive all sorts of distances and insist that it should be easy. Even weirder, they pretend that only Vancouver has bad traffic. Have they never been anywhere else? This isn’t just a Vancouver problem.
In many ways I think Vancouver is already the type of City where you move homes when you switch jobs… and we now increasingly switch jobs. Goes some distance to explaining feelings of disconnectedness in communities maybe?
@ gman #38
“Dont worry folks when they finish implementing Agenda 21 and the Wildlands Project nobody will drive anymore, unfortunately nobody will be allowed to go camping or venture out of the city either. We will only be allowed to live packed and stacked in towers along the rail lines.”
o_O
I don’t know what it is about this little corner of the internet lately but it sure has taken on a whole new flavour of crazy. The comments page is turning into an encyclopedia of insanity.
RE: The future of cars
Youth (under 30s) are not buying as many cars as their parents. There are a few reasons:
1. They tend to like urban living and are quite happy with transit, walking, and cycling.
2. They often never bothered to finish their drivers license.
3. They often cannot afford car payment + insurance + gas + maintenance, and rather than become a slave to it, they opt to live differently than their parents did.
Fuel purchases are falling continent-wide, as is car ownership in the younger cohorts. It’s probably time to stop subsidizing cars to the extent that we do (e.g. we’re spending $4 billion between the Cassiar tunel and 232nd, but everyone sets their hair on fire about a potential $23/yr on their property tax to fund rapid bus over the new bridge?!).
45 gman // Aug 31, 2012 at 11:34 am
Boo @42
I didnt write it Boo but I did read it and it is being implemented all over the world.Are you really trying to say its not real? Maybe you should give Maurice Strong and carbon Cadman a call and tell them.
Andrew @43
I didnt draw the map,they did,but I did look at it.If you dont believe it I guess that makes you a denier.
46 boohoo // Aug 31, 2012 at 11:42 am
Anyone can write anything gman, doesn’t make it true. I could find a blog arguing the world is flat and made of pancake mix, does that make it worth anything?
This agenda 21 you’re so scared of is a non-binding, voluntarily implemented plan, so really, it’s not worth much. Hell look at how we dealt with the legally binding Kyoto agreement. That didn’t stop us from just ignoring it….
Do you honestly believe people will be forced to cities to live in towers against their will? And if so, why bother posting on a blog like this?
47 Julia // Aug 31, 2012 at 1:57 pm
Andrew #44- you are right – the under 30′s are driving less. Let’s see what happens when those same under 30′s are living with arthritic knees, or dragging 2 kids to soccer or football or music lessons. Let’s see what happens when our aging demographic needs that extra bedroom and there isn’t one unless they move to the suburbs.
Yes, we need to drive our cars less but we still need to move goods, and get around beyond a reasonable walking distance. So we have 2 choices – fuel efficient cars, or a horse and buggy. Which way do you think this is going to go?
48 boohoo // Aug 31, 2012 at 2:07 pm
“Yes, we need to drive our cars less but we still need to move goods, and get around beyond a reasonable walking distance. So we have 2 choices – fuel efficient cars, or a horse and buggy.”
Train, bus, tram, cycle, carshare, taxi, etc. There are a lot of options other than private automobile or your scare tactics/devolve to the 18th century schtick.
49 West End Gal // Aug 31, 2012 at 2:11 pm
gman… good call on Agenda 21.
The chicken inside the chicken coop will never admit that the foxes are minding the shack. Stupid.
But what’s scary is the level of ignorance and apathy they transpire.
They read the referenced sources and they still don’t believe it. No comments.
“This agenda 21 you’re so scared of is a non-binding, voluntarily implemented plan, so really, it’s not worth much.”
Boohoo, yeah right, that’s how they forced the Kyoto accord, the Copenhagen protocol, did you know that the carbon offset is already big business? They scared you shitless with the global warming, the catastrophic climate change – only read that David Suzuki farce, locally with the impending earthquake, oil spill, god knows… Tsakumis!
But sleep on, boohoo and the rest, that’s what they want you to do anyway… bye.
50 teririch // Aug 31, 2012 at 2:17 pm
Study: Commuting to work
Related subjects
Labour
Commuting to work
Society and community
Time use
Transportation
Transportation by road
2010
Canadian commuters took an average of 26 minutes to travel to work on a typical day in 2010, including all modes of transportation. The average commuting time was longest in the six largest census metropolitan areas (CMAs), each of which has a population of more than 1 million.
Commuters in these metropolitan areas spent 30 minutes on average getting to work. Those in mid-sized metropolitan areas of between 250,000 and fewer than 1 million people took 25 minutes.
The average commuting time was longest for commuters in the CMAs of Toronto, 33 minutes, Montréal, 31 minutes and Vancouver, 30 minutes.
In both Toronto and Montréal, more than one-quarter of commuters had travel times of 45 minutes or more, which was much greater than in any other metropolitan area. Another one-quarter had travel times of 30 to 44 minutes.
Roughly 82% of commuters travelled to work by car in 2010, while 12% took public transit and 6% walked or bicycled.
Commute longer by public transit than by car
Commuters who used public transit took considerably longer to get to work than those who lived an equivalent distance from their place of work and went by car.
Nationally, users of public transit spent 44 minutes travelling to work, compared with 24 minutes for those who went by car. (Commuting times are door-to-door. Times for public transit are generally longer because its use can involve walking to a transit stop and waiting for a bus.)
In the six largest metropolitan areas, the average commuting time was 44 minutes for public transit users and 27 minutes by car. The gap in average commuting time was slightly larger in mid-sized metropolitan areas: 46 minutes on public transit and 23 minutes by car.
The gap was not a result of distance travelled. Among workers in CMAs with at least 250,000 residents who travelled less than 5 kilometres to work, car users had an average commute of 10 minutes, compared with 26 minutes for public transit users. The same held true for longer commutes.
Average commuting times in the three largest metropolitan areas followed the general trend. In Toronto and Vancouver, it took public transit users about 20 minutes longer than car users to get to work. In Montréal, the difference was much smaller, about 10 minutes.
Most car commuters find public transit inconvenient
The 2010 General Social Survey asked workers who did not use public transit if they had ever tried using public transit to travel to work. They were also asked how they rated the level of convenience of public transit.
Of the 10.6 million workers who commuted by car, about 9 million reported that they had never used public transit for their commute. About 7.4 million of these people thought public transit would be somewhat or very inconvenient.
About 1.6 million car commuters, or 15% of the total, said they had tried using public transit to get to work. A slight majority of them (53%) considered it inconvenient.
Workers satisfied in general with commuting time
In general, satisfaction with commuting times was high: 85% of commuters said they were satisfied or very satisfied with the amount of time it took to get to work, while 15% were dissatisfied.
Dissatisfaction was more common in larger urban centres, where commuters had more frequent encounters with traffic congestion. The proportion of dissatisfied commuters was highest (20%) in census metropolitan areas with 1 million residents or more. Outside these areas, the proportion of dissatisfied commuters ranged from 8% to 10%.
Public transit users were more likely than car commuters to be dissatisfied with their commuting times (23% versus 18%). This was primarily because it takes them longer on average to get to work.
As commuting time increased, the pattern was reversed. For example, 21% of car commuters with commuting times between 30 and 44 minutes said they were dissatisfied, compared with 10% of public transit users.
The connection between commuting times and stress was clear. Of the full-time workers who took 45 minutes or more to travel to work, 36% said that most days were quite or extremely stressful. In contrast, this was the case for 23% of workers whose commuting time was less than 15 minutes.
51 boohoo // Aug 31, 2012 at 2:17 pm
Uhh, WEG, they ignored the Kyoto Accord, so not really a good example of the big bad boogey man forcing anything. And ‘referenced sources’, yeah like I said, I can ‘reference’ anything from anywhere.
I’m not the one living in fear here.
52 teririch // Aug 31, 2012 at 2:26 pm
I have to admit, I am considering buying a car, again.
After being frustrated waiting for buses that don’t run on time, are jam packed or ‘bypass’ stops… I decided to calculated how much time I was stood, waiting for transit, time spent on a bus and included two trips crammed onto a crowded Skytrain to Surrey. (I noted times for a one week period)
The ‘inconvenient truth’ my time is worth more – the cost of owning a vehicle provides more freedom and access and I don’t have to listen to someone’s music blaring away (even with earbuds), or hope I don’t get sick because they haven’t figured out how to cover their mouth when coughing or sneezing.
53 Bill Lee // Aug 31, 2012 at 2:53 pm
Linkname: Is the car dead? – The Globe and Mail
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/is-the-car-dead/article4510125/
…” I have a theory that the model city of the future is not Toronto, Vancouver or London. It is central Bologna or Venice, where the car is….. ” [ more ]
54 Rico // Aug 31, 2012 at 3:22 pm
It definitely is getting a little nuttier in here, gman even got someone admitting they agree with him. To bad they don’t realize it is all a plot by aliens who like warmer temperatures to keep us from reducing global warming…..
55 Bill // Aug 31, 2012 at 3:54 pm
boohoo #51
“they ignored the Kyoto Accord”
But not before billions of dollars were wasted and it would have been worse without the financial crash in 2008 to put the brakes on all the ill conceived Green initiatives.
56 gman // Aug 31, 2012 at 3:54 pm
Boo you say anybody can link to anything, trying to make it sound like some kind of conspiracy or something.The only thing I linked to was their map,look it up yourself.I cant help it if you and Rico choose to be willfully ignorant about something that is common knowledge.Really Boo do you live under a rock or what,try to keep up with the world Boo instead of showing your lack of knowledge and attacking me on a subject you know nothing about.
57 West End Gal // Aug 31, 2012 at 3:58 pm
Rico… #54,
very funny.
You don’t mind me asking, how did you come up with the “Rico” name anyway? Sounds too much like a brand name for the $5 per 50ml minuscule Happy Planet booster concentrated juice Drink! Without all this fake news of yours they (Robertson & company) would not be able to sell a single pint of water diluted nectar…
58 boohoo // Aug 31, 2012 at 4:05 pm
“Boo you say anybody can link to anything, trying to make it sound like some kind of conspiracy or something.”
Yes, I’m the one perpetuating conspiracy theories here lol.
Again, if we’re all doomed to live in skyrise hell against our will, why are you bothering to post here?
59 gman // Aug 31, 2012 at 4:20 pm
Boo thats what this is about,transportation and density,what do you think its about?Its not a conspiracy or a theory,its a fact,and you simply have no idea what it is so you attack the messenger rather than educating yourself to the very public truth.
60 boohoo // Aug 31, 2012 at 4:31 pm
‘Truth’ gman, is very subjective.
How many ‘truths’ have been forecast to be nothing more than speculative bs? Too many to count.
And yet again, if you honestly believe it is set it stone, a truth, then why bother being here? Doesn’t matter what we say or do or plan for–does it.
61 Agustin // Aug 31, 2012 at 5:41 pm
@ West End Gal
You might also find that Rico is a nickname for either Ricardo or Federico, both of which are fairly common Spanish names.
But your suggestion is probably closer to the truth… And it’s definitely not getting nutty in here.
Happy long weekend, all!
62 waltyss // Aug 31, 2012 at 6:04 pm
The conspiracy theorists and nutbars are defintitely out in force. Not even a full moon.
No-one is arguing to do away with the car but it is obvious to most that a car culture is unsustainable for all sorts of reasons.
Most of us cling to our cars simply because it is too convenient. I admit that I drive to work simply because it is too easy. For a period of time, I was unable to drive because of an injury to my foot and took the bus and walked four blocks. I could actually read the paper and get in a bit of a walk before dinner. Slothfulness returned when the leg healed.
In my neighbourhood, I see parents driving teenage children 6 blocks to their school. Fat kids; polluting parents. Whatever happened to feet or bikes.
What happened to parents getting together to take their kids to an event. I did it for my kids’ basketball practises when little.
As was pointed out earlier, we got smoking down by education and making it increasinly costly and inconvenient. That is the only thing that will work with the car, as well. Increase gas taxes, reduce parking spaces; block off streets. Eventually I will get out of my car. It will be easier for my kids generation who know this instinctively. And it is for them and their children that we design cities, not dinosaurs like me or other neanderthals on this site.
63 boohoo // Aug 31, 2012 at 7:13 pm
gman,
I had a look at your little map. High quality there. An unfinished, ‘simulated’ mash up of several groups objectives with no explanation of any of it. Riiiiiight.
64 Chris Keam // Aug 31, 2012 at 9:42 pm
“So we have 2 choices – fuel efficient cars, or a horse and buggy.”
I can’t believe the amazing utility of the zeppelin is being overlooked here!
Seriously, it’s interesting that a debate over what our roads should look like for the future isn’t accounting for the kinds of cars we will drive. Here’s the most likely scenario based on technological trends and the auto industry’s response to a shift away from automobile dominance of our roads:
Lots of people will still drive, or more accurately ride inside, self-driving automobiles. Autonomous or ‘drive-by-wire’ vehicles will remove the human element for most trips. Having computers do the driving will allow for higher speeds, shorter distances between vehicles, and far fewer accidents. Just those factors alone will reduce the amount of roadway we need, but coupled with smaller vehicles and more telecommuting, those who still want to drive will find the roads less congested than they have ever been.
Of course, cars without autonomous capability will come with a higher insurance premium — the high cost of driver error being put into sharp relief as the accident rate drops due to computers that don’t get distracted or make mistakes when they drive, and the appeal of clinging to a steering wheel will quickly fade when you watch everyone else on the road taking advantage of travel time for a variety of tasks. Copulation while driving will prove a popular genre of amateur Internet porn.
This change in the automobile will also bring a slow change in car culture, as ‘owning’ a vehicle no longer bears the same cachet when you don’t get to drive in a fashion that calls attention to yourself. Eventually car ownership will be like owning a boat, reserved for enthusiasts and those who need a specialized vehicle for their work.
The rest of us will rely on cars that are similar to a mixed taxi/transit system closely resembling Car2Go’s current business model but with more companies offering the service. Vacations, long trips, etc will be handled easily by a rental fleet that grows to some extent to meet demand. What won’t happen is that people will be forced to buy a car that is in motion for a couple hours a day and sits still for the rest of the time. You’ll probably see small communal parking lots incorporated into neighbourhoods, as garages and parking spaced prove superflous for most. A nice side-effect of this change will be the additional disposable income in family’s budgets, a boon to the economy in general and the return of road hockey in residential neighbourhoods.
Most cars will be electric, but the energy density of fossil fuels will continue to make it the fuel of choice for long-range transport. Speaking of electric vehicles, an aging population unwilling to give up personal mobility, but unable to pass their driver’s exam, will create a huge demand for separate lanes for electric scooters, trikes, and fast-moving wheelchairs. As an aside, opposing more options and delineations in our road space now will prove to be a self-harming move in the future, as we come to realize that LEV’s (light electric vehicles) need their own dedicated space.
Lots of people will cycle, but not everybody, or even a majority. They will ride for simpler, non-political reasons. Riding a bicycle is fun, 99.9% of the time, and the haters who can’t deal with that reality will find themselves equated with the type of stupidity generally reserved for members of the Westboro Baptist Church. The rest of the population will find it hard to believe riding a bike was a political act back in the day.
These are all good things, but the best part will be the huge drop in traffic fatalities that we have become inured to by our current sick approach to safe streets. Our great grand-children will think us cruel and ignorant fools, the type of people who sacrificed children to save a few minutes of travel time, and only slightly more evolved than the folks who used to send kids into coal mines. But you’ll be dead, so you won’t care.
65 Chris Keam // Aug 31, 2012 at 9:56 pm
“The ‘inconvenient truth’ my time is worth more”
Your time is worth nothing. Not to me or anyone else. You are one of the billions on this planet and just another piece of self-aware meat in a long lineage of the same that will continue for thousands of years in some form or another. You have no more right to resources than those who precede you, follow you, or exist contemporaneously. You are, as I was privileged to be reminded by the words of a Haida elder two weeks ago, no more important than a grain of sand. Act accordingly and stop putting yourself above everyone else on the planet who has as much right to time and resources as you. Behave like you give a crap about the planet you leave behind. If you can’t do that, you are a liability to the rest of us now, and those who follow in our path. Enjoy the long weekend.
66 Glissando Remmy // Aug 31, 2012 at 11:38 pm
Thought of The Night
“Leaving a comment on Fabula’s blog have become as much fun as being vaccinated for malaria. Only in this case you don’t have to travel to Africa. You are already there!”
Nice pictorial Chris #64. Good luck with that.
Not interested in the ping-pong matches either.
Transit in this city should not be imposed by a handful of brainless politicians. Leave that for the transportation authority aka Translink.
The “trial” closure of the Robson Street block is a cruel joke, and a slap in the face of all Vancouver bus riders, specifically the Vancouver East ins & outs. Pitiful.
The time delays, the rerouting, all extra… so that a bunch of bums could stretch their bones in the sun in front of the VAG’s steps. Wait till the rainy season starts.
But don’t bring this to the attention of the globetrotting Mayor, who now, after the departure of David Cadman aka The Man with better mileage than Santa!… is trying hard to achieve his predecesor’s yearly quota.
I know that I’m talking to the hand when I’m saying this, but if I’d be in charge of the Ad Campaign for the Robson Street Closure, this would be my first TV Ad:
“Squeezing Vancouver’s Balls With Love. Smallest Gesture, Biggest Impact… Vision Vancouver !”
Of course, all on the appropriate background music… F. Shalyapin’s “Dubinuska”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsWLI9O_pOI
We live in Vancouver and this keeps s busy.
67 Ryan // Sep 1, 2012 at 4:49 am
Noooooo!
My bus, the C25, is being cut down from once per 30 minutes to once per hour. I guess I’m buying a car.
68 Roger Kemble // Sep 1, 2012 at 6:31 am
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/23/antarctic_peninsula_ice_core/
Get ouda your phuccin’ cars anyway you petulant, indigent slobs . . .
69 Roger Kemble // Sep 1, 2012 at 6:47 am
PS The problem isn’t Robson Street behind VAG. It’s that god-awful, gray, bland, lop-sided, badly designed pretentious lump of shit behind it.
It was dumped there at a time no one gave a shit about, or indeed, knew about what makes the city tick.
It was all about genius and ego!
Good grief this jabber jabber makes me puke!
Now, get out of your damn cars, stop whining, and walk!
70 Chris Keam // Sep 1, 2012 at 9:00 am
“Nice pictorial Chris #64. Good luck with that.”
You think I’m positioning that scenario as a best case outcome? Think about today’s world times 2. Who pays so that the First World lives in electric splendour? Why do you think the rich elite are so enamoured of hard-to-get-to islands, whether they are capitalists and socialists.
“Leaving a comment on Fabula’s blog have become as much fun as being vaccinated for malaria. Only in this case you don’t have to travel to Africa. You are already there!”
Take your leave or start your own blog, but quit whinging fergawdsakes.
71 Chris Keam // Sep 1, 2012 at 9:25 am
“Leave that for the transportation authority aka Translink.”
The people spending more than they can make back on fare gates? They would be better off continuing the stepped up enforcement now that they have greater powers to collect, rather than building infrastructure that will get tossed once ‘electronic wallet’ technology rolls out in a big way and simply entering the bus or train will trigger a fare billing to your bank account or credit card. Geez, doesn’t anyone read Popular Science anymore?
72 boohoo // Sep 1, 2012 at 10:27 am
“The “trial” closure of the Robson Street block is a cruel joke, and a slap in the face of all Vancouver bus riders.”
Again, the mindless focus… Don’t speak for all Vancouver bus riders, the vast majority of which don’t go down Robson. Keep this in bloody perspective!
73 teririch // Sep 1, 2012 at 10:53 am
@Chris Keam:
My time is worth more, to me and to my family.
And I pondered that last night when approx. 30 Critical Mass idiots tied up traffic on the Burrard Street Bridge.
Traffic south of the bridge went for kms, it was backed up on Burrard, down Cornwall and West 4th – various side streets.
It was a mess – and for what?
You point at me stating I am self absorbed, well my friend, how about those that are ‘claiming’ to speak for the planet take a long look in the mirror.
Speak of a self absorbed, self entitled group.
Aside from cars sitting for Lord knows how long, they took time away from those people sat in the traffic mess and lets not forget the cost – for the police that are tied up ‘protecting’ them and their lunacy.
And I thank our Mayor for giving his stamp of approval to the childishness that is Critical Mass.
74 brilliant // Sep 1, 2012 at 10:53 am
Poor boo, positively frothing that someone dares to question Georgeous Gregor and his Vision minions. The fact is this is just one more in the long litany of “Vision knows best, who cares what the neighbours want” decisions.
75 Boohoo // Sep 1, 2012 at 12:31 pm
Brilliant,
You are so blinded by the trees you can’t even imagine there’s a forest. I don’t know how me saying think big picture equals me frothing that this is being questioned. Ignoring the inconvenient fact that I have, a number of times, called for vision and political parties to be abolished, I don’t give a rats ass about this closure. It is so insignificant in the context of transportation in the region it is hardly worth mention.
But it sure feels good to rant and rave ignoring the crumbling forest all around you because someone cut down your favorite tree.
If you have any suggestions on how to make the transportation system in this region better, I’m all ears. If you want to pretend the world ends at main st and make childish accusations, spare us. We get it.
76 teririch // Sep 1, 2012 at 1:02 pm
RE: Robson closure
The City might want to put up signs warning parents that the ‘cushions’ are not soft.
Witnessed small kids running to dive onto them – including one little guy who did a somersault onto one, only to hit it with a hard thud.
Some child is going to get hurt.
77 New Westminster Is Hip // Sep 1, 2012 at 1:24 pm
First time poster on this blog. Friend of mine from Vancouver recommended it.
I am going to get him for this…
Interesting topics all & all, but full of blubber and angry people… oh, and lots of disguised political hacks (is that Vizion or Npa?)
Some angrier than others. Last I’ve heard , everyone is entitled to their opinions. At least in a democracy, they are.
Some of you should give yourselves a head shake, my friends.
Vancouver politics, bad as they are, I hope will stay in Vancouver!
Long weekend ahead. From New Westminster and OUT!
78 Frank Ducote // Sep 1, 2012 at 3:53 pm
Glissy – I agree with you. Something dreadful has happened to this blog in recent weeks. It seems to have gotten a lot less informative, witty and civil, not to mention fun. And, in contrast, increasingly more personal and nasty.
It used to be the go-to site for civic events and urban discourse in Vancouver. My day didn’t seem complete without a view or three. Now, it’s healthier for one’s frame of mind and desire for rational commentary to simply avoid the whole thing and check out other blogs, like Geller’s and Price’s, which are both more about content than petty politics and personal attacks.
Sad.
79 Chris Keam // Sep 1, 2012 at 4:07 pm
“You point at me stating I am self absorbed”
Nope. I said your time is worth nothing, certainly not more than anyone else’s. Don’t take it personally, it’s the same for all of us.
80 Chris Keam // Sep 1, 2012 at 4:24 pm
“petty politics and personal attacks.”
That’s GR’s modus operandi Frank. I can’t imagine why you would feed the troll who personifies Eleanor Roosevelt’s wise remark:
“Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.”
81 Frank Ducote // Sep 1, 2012 at 6:04 pm
Chris – I am only agreeing with his opening remark. Otherwise, not at all, for the reason you note. But you’d have to agree about the nastier tone of commentary of late, no?
82 Boohoo // Sep 1, 2012 at 6:21 pm
I would suspect the loss of city caucus is a reason for that. I have also stopped engaging as much because of it. Couldn’t stop myself in this thread though lol…
83 Everyman // Sep 1, 2012 at 8:26 pm
@Chris Keam 79
Perhaps people have her mixed up with Alice Roosevelt, who famously said “If you haven’t got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me.”
84 Robert in Calgary // Sep 1, 2012 at 8:29 pm
I read the title of this post and 81 messages later, yikes.
85 Terry M // Sep 1, 2012 at 8:45 pm
Glissy is back!
So are the boutique chihuahuas!
Jesus Chris Keam… You are such a douche!
All Glissando wrote in his post to you is the following:
“Nice pictorial Chris #64. Good luck with that.
Not interested in the ping-pong matches either.”
I read “nice pictorial” , “good luck”, “not interested in the ping-pong”
I’d say, that’s classy of him… Considering he knew of you.
Boy , oh boy, but not CK, he couldn’t take it! He had to take it to the next level, no sireee Bob!
LOL!
Welcome back GR, and I agree … Fabula’s blog have become lost cause.
Pity.
86 Chris Keam // Sep 1, 2012 at 9:47 pm
@Frank:
Sadly, same as it ever was.
@Terry:
Thanks for proving Eleanor’s point.
87 Chris Keam // Sep 1, 2012 at 10:08 pm
@teririch:
A good article you might want to read:
http://edge.org/conversation/what-is-value
Mostly talks about redefining value, but these changes will have significant impacts on the resource industry which could impact your livelihood, and it speaks obliquely to my point about the worth of time. Parenthetically, if time is infinite, that means your time has less value with each passing minute as there’s an infinite supply, in fact more than we can use in a lifetime.
“Shared cars can be used as another example of the difference that I see between the generation of value and the appropriation of value. If you go outside, you will see a large number of vehicles. Many of these are parked, and when a vehicle is parked it’s not being used. If we wanted to increase GDP, well, we might want to increase the number of vehicles that get sold, and the number of people that own vehicles, and the number of vehicles per person. But if you think about it now, when there are technologies that are starting to ripen, such as the technology that allows us to have self-driving cars, you can think that actually you can reduce the number of cars needed by having self-driving cars as shared vehicles. You can have a transportation system that is much more shared. That is going to reduce the amount of money that flows through the car industry, simply because you’re going to need fewer cars because their use is more efficient when this are shared.”
88 gman // Sep 2, 2012 at 9:19 am
89 teririch // Sep 2, 2012 at 11:55 am
Congratualtions to Mike Klassen, founder of City Caucus.
I just read his first article in the Huffington Post.
Well done!
90 F.H.Leghorn // Sep 2, 2012 at 2:48 pm
@Chris Keam #64: Let computers do the driving? Which computers are you talking about? As someone who made a living off IT I wouldn’t trust them to control any important aspect of my life. Too easy to hack or crash (giving new meaning to the word).
91 F.H.Leghorn // Sep 2, 2012 at 2:49 pm
And if people think smart meters are a covert method for spying on them, imagine the paranoia surrounding smart cars.
92 F.H.Leghorn // Sep 2, 2012 at 2:53 pm
In a smart car the Blue Screen Of Death could mean real (as opposed to virtual) death.
93 F.H.Leghorn // Sep 2, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Of course you may be dreaming of an iCar. Then Apple can sue any car with 4 wheels or a squarish shape.
94 Chris Keam // Sep 2, 2012 at 3:36 pm
“As someone who made a living off IT I wouldn’t trust them to control any important aspect of my life.”
No doubt they’ll abort any further development of the idea based upon the incredulity and disbelief of an anonymous Internet poster.
http://www.webpronews.com/self-driving-cars-clear-another-hurdle-in-california-2012-08
95 F.H.Leghorn // Sep 2, 2012 at 4:37 pm
Or continue development based on the credulity and belief of an eponymous Internet poster.
http://www.applefanboyz.com/some-people-will-believe-anything
96 Chris Keam // Sep 2, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Broken link. As someone who hasn’t made a living off I.T… “I am disappoint”
http://www.cbc.ca/spark/full-interviews/2012/06/20/full-interview-clifford-nass-on-autonomous-cars/
97 IanS // Sep 4, 2012 at 11:33 am
@teririch #73,
Props for your restrained response to Mr. Keam’s venomous diatribe (#65). I would have been a good deal lease measured.
98 IanS // Sep 4, 2012 at 11:34 am
Re #97:
“lease” should read “less”.
(Sometimes less is more, but, AFAIK, less is almost never lease.)
99 Terry M // Sep 4, 2012 at 12:14 pm
WOW, WOW,and WOW!
Chris Keam @65
“Your time is worth nothing. Not to me or anyone else. You are one of the billions on this planet and just another piece of self-aware meat in a long lineage of the same that will continue for thousands of years in some form or another. You have no more right to resources than those who precede you, follow you, or exist contemporaneously.”
This is the single, most asshole…ic response I read in years!
You Sir, are the true representation of the radical green group of enviro-hypocrites that took over this city of ours. A bunch of rich punks with second and third houses on faraway isolated and unsustainable islands telling us how to live our lives, to recycle our plastic bags, take cold showers, bike on the forced down our throats bike lanes… All while you phonies are circumventing the world attending feel good conferences, spending $100,000s tax payer monies, and polluting 1000s times more. Go figure!
You people simply make me sick. Better Vancouver wakes up and get rid of this Vision Virus pandemic and their microbian culture. And fast!
There teririch & IanS we are vindicated now!
Meh.
100 Julia // Sep 4, 2012 at 1:06 pm
It’s tough to have a civil conversation when only one opinion is the ‘right’ opinion. Seems to me we have religious folks south of the border and in the middle east that have a similar notion that there is only one way to look at things and everyone else be damned. This environmental conversation is going down the same path.
We may save the planet but who wants it if it is void of civility and respect.
Chris, #64 – if you want us to embrace your message, you may want to reconsider how you deliver it. Or, better yet, simple be quiet and let someone else do it that has more tact.
101 Mira // Sep 4, 2012 at 1:31 pm
Julia #100,
Current environmentalism is a… religion! Only a fake religion. A Watermelon if you may… Green on the outside Red on the inside! To the bones!
Terry M #99 hurray for that! IanS/ teririch I second your comments too… we have a big big headache circling the blogosphere wagon.
102 boohoo // Sep 4, 2012 at 2:00 pm
What’s disheartening is the mindless lumping into simplistic, stereotypes that consumes the discussions.
Have concerns about the pipeline? You are an extreme leftist bent on ruining this nation’s economic prosperity.
Don’t immediately think bike lanes are a bad idea? You’re a political hack taking your orders from nefarious american donors at the behest of shady interest groups.
Want to reduce car dependency in Vancouver? You’re an elitist, cycling, hippy waging war on the good old common man.
etc, etc, etc.
We are all, ALL, somewhere in the middle of course. No one here fits these stupid stereotypes. It sure makes it easy to ignore the point someone is trying to make, but does nothing to further the discussion.
If we could move past this inane stupidity we might get somewhere.
This post was about transit in the region. Why aren’t we talking about that?
103 waltyss // Sep 4, 2012 at 4:08 pm
I am certainly prepared to admit that some of Chris Keam’s posts were, shall we sat, rigid and rather inelegantly put.
I also agree completely with boohoo that we have too much of slotting in of stereotypical views.
However, whoever says it, it would be somwhat more credible if you were as willing to condemn those expressing those types of views that are from your own political persuasion. (I say this knowing that this is asking too much of some people.)
104 teririch // Sep 4, 2012 at 7:48 pm
@ Ian S #97:
Like is said, my time is worth more. And my point was proven…..:)
105 teririch // Sep 4, 2012 at 7:49 pm
@Terry M #99:
Thank you… : )
106 ThinkOutsideABox // Sep 4, 2012 at 9:08 pm
If teririch is who I think she is, then I’m under the impression that she gives of her time to feed and show care to the homeless in her neighbourhood.
If so, I find the above post with the comment, “Your time is worth nothing. Not to me or anyone else…” offensive and lacking in humanity.
107 Frances Bula // Sep 4, 2012 at 9:16 pm
@Thank you for this, BH.
108 Roger Kemble // Sep 5, 2012 at 7:30 am
“This post was about transit in the region.” Here, here bh.
Last nite CBC’s evening news ran a story on the crush of students, school is now back in, along the Broadway corridor.
Nothing new about that: it worsens by the year. Nothing new about Translink’s shop worn solution: shiny trinkets by the billions!
Nothing new about Mr. World-class-paradise Gordon Price chirping in with his usual platitudes. Mr. Price gained political notoriety shooing the ladies of the street out f his Westend neighborhood and used his time on council junketing the world attending transportation conferences: at which he learned a lot “twentieth century mumbo jumbo” that gurgles up every time he’s miked!
What seem to have slipped Mr. Price’s and Translink’s attention is the world-class bankers paradise of debt.
CBC’s graphics bandied about billions and billions, I cannot remember how many I was stunned, but it is a lot.
I know I have posted this link . . .
http://members.shaw.ca/theyorkshirelad72/working.mount.pleasant.html
. . . many times: sorry for that.
But it’s important to look beyond the status quo. Seek simpler solutions, (i.e. move the loci and focus by spending millions to save billions), if for no other reason we do not have billions.
But we do have a TX problem that needs sensible solutions.
Thanqu!
109 Higgins // Sep 7, 2012 at 11:44 am
Ouchie mama, CK! :-@
110 Chris Keam // Sep 12, 2012 at 8:30 pm
“if you want us to embrace your message”
I don’t. I don’t speak for anyone but myself. I don’t want sheep looking to me for direction. I’d prefer people actually read both what I originally wrote, and my follow-up which was quite clear that I was speaking in general terms. Further, I think that civility and respect come from accepting one’s insignificance and realizing that no one’s time is more important than the next person’s. I was under the understanding that our worth was intrinsic to our existence, not a factor that varies according to purchasing power. Frankly, that’s how we got to this ridiculous traffic nonsense we currently experience.
Finally, what’s really funny is people who feel entitled to call others ‘douche’ from behind a curtain getting hysterical about manners when another person has the temerity to point out that what we will leave behind is more important than what we take while we’re here. But that means facing reality and it gets uglier every day.
111 Chris Keam // Sep 13, 2012 at 8:33 am
If so, I find the above post with the comment, “Your time is worth nothing. Not to me or anyone else…” offensive and lacking in humanity.
Time is the currency of transportation. If we say one person’s time is more valuable than the next in this arena, which is NOT an exchange of good or services for recompense, then we are implicitly saying some people are entitled to use more transportation resources (generally driving) than others (on transit or by some self-propelled means). Go far enough down that road and you end up like Russia, where the wealthy can drive however they want and face little or no consequences.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/12/AR2010031203928.html
So if you want a city where the elite travel as they want, and the rest sit stuck in traffic jams, continue to believe that ‘your’ time is more valuable than the person sitting next to you on Skytrain, buy a car and contribute to the problem. But at least be honest about it and accept that you are positing a reality where some animals are more equal than others.
112 Chris Keam // Sep 13, 2012 at 8:34 am
Sorry, I should have put quotes around the first para, which is attributable to TOAB.
cheers,
CK
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