Comments on: Obama high-speed train link for Vancouver?

By: Darcy McGee

Darcy McGee — Wed, 13 May 2009 03:57:09 +0000

Monte’s article is out, and I note that it focuses on high speed rail for Calgary-Edmonton and Toronto-Montreal. A comment is made about a rapid trip from Toronto-Vancouver but often when people think of high speed rail and Vancouver (or any rail, indeed) it’s easy to overlook a major constraining factor: geography. Tracks are twisty, and unless you’re willing to blast right through mountains you have no choice.

People often lament the demise of rail from Vancouver to Whistler. I did this a couple of times, and while it was pleasant it took a LONG time. There’s one line hanging off the raggedy edge of the mountains and its twister.

High speed rail means (broadly speaking) straighter, grade separated track. It’s my view that government SHOULD be investing in it…where possible. I’m not sure there’s much possible outside of the Fraser Valley in British Columbia (but am far from an expert on this.)

By: Nathanael

Nathanael — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 00:46:53 +0000

A peek at a map suggests running the high-speed line across the border at Sumas, crossing the river between Abbotsford and Mission City, and joining the CP mainline west to Vancouver. If CN rebuilds the Fraser River Bridge, it would work just as well to run on the south side of the river until there. Either route avoids the outrageous curves and riverfront property on the coast line.

By: gmgw

gmgw — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 07:41:04 +0000

“GMGW: silly pedestrians aren’t a reason not to build this either. High Speed Rail would require grade separation anyway, and pedestrian crossings would be below grade.”

Excuse me? At no time did I say the line shouldn’t be built. I think it’s a fine idea, as long as it’s done properly. I was merely pointing out that for a number of reasons (not merely those pertaining to “silly pedestrians”) it would be highly impractical to use the existing BN route. And I think any White Rock and/or Surrey Mayor and Council who agreed to allow HSR to run along the Surrey Riviera- assuming higher levels of government were to give them a choice– would likely be lynched en masse in front of their respective City Halls by angry mobs.
gmgw

By: Denis

Denis — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 03:21:32 +0000

If you wait for the density, the next problem is finding the property, suddenly much more expensive to run a train. When Bc is bragging about a new bridge to be built for 3 billions( and their estimates are usally low balled) maybe it’s time to get serious about trains. The old E&N on the Island goes the wrong way for passengers, so guess what? A shortage of passengers, so let’s not spend money changing the direction of the train so it comes into town in the morning, or fixing the track.

By: Darcy McGee

Darcy McGee — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 00:50:51 +0000

Monte: can you fix The Walrus for me? It’s broken, and I miss the version we had.

By: Darcy McGee

Darcy McGee — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 00:50:13 +0000

Train to Seattle is the absolute best way to go. I drove last October, and regretted it. Amtrak will take a bike for $5. From Seattle to Portland they have a bike car…you don’t even have to box it.

Joe makes valid points about the lack of density, but mass transit can be both a response too and an encouragement for density. While it’s not necessarily true that if you build it, they will come…it’s absolutely true that if you never build it, they’re never going to come.

North American transportation policies have been so full geared to the automobile for so long, people can’t imagine anything else. Try sometime. It’s worth it.

GMGW: silly pedestrians aren’t a reason not to build this either. High Speed Rail would require grade separation anyway, and pedestrian crossings would be below grade.

By: gmgw

gmgw — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 00:32:26 +0000

If and when HSR arrives, it won’t be via the existing Burlington Northern route. The safety issues raised by the mingling of an active rail route and pedestrians in White Rock, and BN’s ongoing pressure for permission to increase the speed of their trains, are chronic points of contention in White Rock. Honestly, can anyone here seriously visualize 110+-MPH trains zipping along the White Rock waterfront, around Kwomais Point and through Crescent Beach? Just the slipstream created by the train’s speed would be dangerous enough that the promenade would have to be evacuated every time one of the things went by. It’s dangerous enough as it is. We were strolling the WR promenade last weekend and as a southbound train approached at its usual speed (about 25?? MPH), just in front of us a couple came up from the beach, crossed over the tracks, and clambered over the protective railing, all with less than 100 feet to spare. The woman seemed quite startled to look up, mid-crossing, and see the train bearing down on her; I overheard her say to her partner “I thought it was coming from the *other* direction!” Had she stumbled and fallen while crossing the tracks, we might have been witness to a fatality. It’s people like that that give train engineers and public safety officials conniptions; unfortunately, there’s a lot of them out there (I mean the world in general, not just Surrey and environs).

All of which raises the question: Where would the new route run? Let alone who’s going to build it…
gmgw

By: RossK

RossK — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 23:28:12 +0000

A really great thread, and I can’t wait to read Mr. Paulsen’s piece in the Walrus.

______
Still, based on the following, from DMJ above:
“What constrains speed on the Vancouver to Seattle BN & SF right-of-way is dated speed limits in Vancouver …..

I can’t help but wonder why the Glimmer Twins haven’t blamed Gregor Robertson yet.

(smiley face would go here if I didn’t hate ‘em so)

By: Joe Just Joe

Joe Just Joe — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 23:16:58 +0000

We might be the only country in the G8 w/o HSR, I’m not sure but I’ll take your word for it. I can assure you though that we are the least dense country in the G8. We do not have the population density to make HSR work across this country, there are a few corridors though that it could work and we will see them materialize within a matter a years. Cal/Edm, Ott/Mtl and maybe a couple of others. As much as we would all like to see HSR in Canada we need to be realistic about it.

By: gmgw

gmgw — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 23:14:36 +0000

One of the principal reasons we’ve seen no serious efforts mounted to bring high-speed rail to Vancouver is that it would require a substantial, and therfore expensive, upgrade of the existing rail infrastructure between here and Seattle. High-speed trains, by their very nature, put a great deal of stress on tracks, bridges and so forth. This is, of course, crucial at TGV-level speeds, but even routine, ongoing runs averaging 100+ MPH would place dangerous stresses on existing infrastructure. And until corporate and/or government transportation mavens can be convinced that HSR to Vancouver would be financially rewarding, I wouldn’t get all excited about its arrival anytime soon, great boon that it would be.
gmgw