95 responses so far ↓

• 1 Julia // Aug 9, 2012 at 2:35 pm

  Engineering has slashed its budget by 6 million dollars in 2012. Perhaps they can tell us what areas of service have been curtailed in the past 2-3 budget years – it has to come from somewhere so what exactly is the ‘somewhere’.

• 2 Bill Lee // Aug 9, 2012 at 3:02 pm

  Unfortuantely all those marvelous litter links require a Langara College ID.
  Can we have yours, Pretty Please?

  —-
  Others can use VPL (almost all local libraries have similar online-access, and you can cross-register your card in other regional cities for full access and borrowing ) [ As we all discovered with helpful Burnaby and Richmond taking 'refugees' during the "great 'Sullivan/Whitney; Library Lockout" ]

  Try : ” CBCA Canadian Business and Current Affairs (Paid for by VPL)
  Canadian Business & Current Affairs offers access to its Business (general and specialized), Current Events (newspapers and other media transcripts) and Reference (popular and academic journals) databases. Full-text retrospective coverage to 1993, and citations to 1982. Also now includes selected images.
  Library Card and PIN needed ”
  and
  “Canadian Newsstand (Paid for by VPL)
  Full text of over 300 BC and major Canadian daily newspapers. Titles include the Vancouver Sun, Province, Vancouver Courier, West Ender, Victoria Times-Colonist, as well as the National Post, Globe and Mail, Toronto Star, Ottawa Citizen, and Calgary Herald. Content for some titles starts as far back as 1985. ”

  See https://www.vpl.ca/electronic_databases/cat/C530

  7000 for Vancouver and Litter
  preview.tinyurl.com/8sou3vl for the first story Prof. Bula lists for us.

• 3 Paul T. // Aug 9, 2012 at 3:06 pm

  I’m not sure if anyone is suggesting the problem has never been worse, or equally as bad Frances. But the complaints are valid, and city hall usually listens when the drone gets above a certain decibel.

  Personally I love my city, for the most part I appreciate the hard work civic staff do to keep it looking amazing. (The ultimate example of this is the finale of the fireworks followed the next morning by the Pride Parade.)

  But when you hear about cuts to operational employees, witness many neighbourhoods starting to look ugly and you then hear $3,000,000 being spent on a new website, $100,000 on a taxpayer funded vacation to London 2012 (only for Vision councillors), you start to wonder if this council is serious about delivering the services we’ve come to expect from city hall.

• 4 Frank Ducote // Aug 9, 2012 at 3:53 pm

  Bill Lee – are you a librarian by any chance? Otherwise I don’t see why or how you’d have the time and/or interst to forward all these links. To be honest, I’d rather read what your opinion is rather than some journalist somewhere.

  What do you think about the litter/maintenance topic? I admit I hadn’t really noticed, but a friend who visits “Vangcouver” on an irregular basis brought this up to me a few weeks back, so fresh eyes may see things that locals don’t notice as much.

  Paul T. – I heartily agree, the beach cleanup after fireworks by the next morning is practically a miracle. Well done, City/Park staff!

• 5 Bill Lee // Aug 9, 2012 at 4:19 pm

  What litter?
  We are not in an Albert Speer’s Welthauptstadt Germania city. [ Bring on the Untergang overdubbing ] There are rough edges.

  I notice the litter when coming from abroad and seeing it during one of the occasional “garbage strikes.” But otherwise they keep it clean.

  Should we review yet another of the City Mayors take a night out with the Garbage Patrol videos that have been done over the years.
  You don’t want to be like the City of Light (and Dark) do you? And Chirac’s motocrottes on the streets?
  Or their Street cleaning tax, assessed on the street area bordering each property, and quintuple that for basic refuse collection.

• 6 Warren // Aug 9, 2012 at 4:36 pm

  I’m always amazed at how often the grass is mowed at my local False Creek parks. When I see garbage in the park or on the street I blame the people, not the city for lack of cleanup. Garbage cans are plentiful and emptied on a regular basis.

  Now if only that lawn was mowed with electric equipment…

• 7 Raingurl // Aug 9, 2012 at 4:41 pm

  I notice the litter more and only in the summer. More tourists popping recycling in the garbage instead of taking it to the nearest blue box. Most folks south of our border have only just started recycling. They don’t know any better but that is still no excuse. You throw a newspaper in the garbage and I’m walking behind you, you’re gonna hear it from me. Sometimes they walk a little faster when they hear me say “THAT’S NOT GARBAGE” hehe

• 8 Julia // Aug 9, 2012 at 5:03 pm

  my favourite spot to monitor is the landscaping around the Vancouver sign at the north end of the Oak street bridge. What a statement it makes when the weeds are taller than the shrubs. If there is no money to maintain something – don’t plant it in the first place. Same is true for the bus bulges on Fraser and Main street.

• 9 brilliant // Aug 9, 2012 at 5:30 pm

  The parks and boulevards are poorly maintained and yet we have Geoff Meggsaphone and Visionless Vancouver proposing yet another large park for the overserved False Creek area. What will they cut to fund it?

  In Richmond they actually mow and water the boulevards and plant flowers on them. Who ever heard of such craziness.

  As to litter, the City aeems to give a free pass to the mess the beggar brigade creates.

• 10 Julia // Aug 9, 2012 at 7:15 pm

  Brilliant… the do it in Delta too

• 11 bertie wooster // Aug 9, 2012 at 10:02 pm

  see, i live between san francisco and montreal, and i can tell you that i find vancouver to be astonishingly clean by contrast to either of those two places.

• 12 waltyss // Aug 9, 2012 at 10:26 pm

  brilliant not, the only increase in garbage I have noticed is what you spew on this site now that City Caucus is dead. Isn’t there somewhere else for your trash talk and you hatred of renters and the homeless.
  The Bula Blogs own version of ‘creme de la creme” only this creme has currdled from the bitter bile it spews.

• 13 Wayne // Aug 10, 2012 at 8:08 am

  It wasn’t too long ago that Granville Mall had an expensive facelift. I walked the length of the mall last night. It’s not clean.

  “… especially in crunch years when money is tight.”
  But there was $3,000,000.00 for an upgrade to a website that probably wasn’t necessary.

• 14 brilliant // Aug 10, 2012 at 8:25 am

  That’s our Waltsyss champion of the downtrodden from his not-in-my-backyard Dunbar eyrie. Given that all you do is come here to slag other posters, surely there must be a little footbridge you can crawl under rather than trouble us with your tireseome screeds. At the very least there must be sone Vission butt that needs kissin’ somewhere.

• 15 Joe Just Joe // Aug 10, 2012 at 8:57 am

  I don’t know if it’s the worst it’s ever been but it certainly is worse then it used to be. Somewhat related, I noticed that the bus shelters have all had their little garbage cans removed. Perhaps this is causing additional garbage in the city bins helping in the overflowing problem we’re seeing.

• 16 boohoo // Aug 10, 2012 at 9:16 am

  Cutting grass is parks is one thing, but if litter is a huge deal to you–pick some up. If everyone who whined about litter spent 10 minutes a week picking some up it wouldn’t be an issue.

  It’s weird this feeling of some people here that if the City isn’t doing it that means it can’t be done.

• 17 boohoo // Aug 10, 2012 at 9:16 am

  ‘in’ parks that is….

• 18 Andrew Browne // Aug 10, 2012 at 10:06 am

  I think some others have correctly noted that summer is busier, so more trash abounds. Every year.

  I’ve noticed lately that garbage cans tend to become full very quickly, even with daily emptying. So trash piles tend to grow around the cans until they’re emptied in the evening. It’s hardly a catastrophe, though.

  In the end litter is a citizen problem, not a government problem. If we’re slobs, we get the City we deserve.

  Example: Last weekend I headed out to Spanish Banks with my parents. The change room that my mother used was filthy to the point of health hazards… toilet paper everywhere, feces on the walls (not kidding), and sanitary napkins everywhere. It’s easy to blame the City for not having more cleaning scheduled for the long weekend, but really we need to blame the slobs around us. It feels like the City could clean things hourly and certain people would still mess it up (futility akin to building highways to relieve traffic).

• 19 Mark // Aug 10, 2012 at 10:51 am

  “There is too much litter in this city and the grass needs to be cut!”

  “How dare my tax dollars be spent on frivolities like cutting grass!”

• 20 Zaelia // Aug 10, 2012 at 11:35 am

  “When I see garbage in the park or on the street I blame the people, not the city for lack of cleanup. Garbage cans are plentiful and emptied on a regular basis.”

  I couldn’t agree more. I have recently begun picking up garbage in my local park, and I have on occasion confronted people I have seen littering.

  If I were to complain about the City as it sort of pertains to this conversation, I’d complain about the fact that over a week ago they came and hacked all the trees in the park that borders my complex, removing any semblance of privacy between the units and the children’s play area and just left the branches strewn all over the park, surrounding the children’s play areas, and in one place blocking the sidewalk. I thought they’d be back the next day, but they didn’t return. Nor did they return the next day or the day after that. At the very least they could have gathered them all into one area, away from the main play area of the park. Now, people from the neighbourhood are starting to add their yarn trimmings to the pile.

• 21 Raingurl // Aug 10, 2012 at 12:37 pm

  @Andrew Browne // Aug 10, 2012 at 10:06 am 18

  The city should clean the city parks hourly in the summer time when there are so many more people out and about. My first job was Expo ’86. I could clean something and ten minutes later I cleaned it again. It was my job, I was paid to do it. The city workers get paid a heck of a lot more than I ever did and the key words here are “getting paid to do it”

• 22 Frank Ducote // Aug 10, 2012 at 1:03 pm

  Andrew and Raingurl – you’re both right. Keep the s**t off the walls and floor and clean up regularly in summer months. Just like at home!

• 23 Julia // Aug 10, 2012 at 1:12 pm

  whatever happened to flex scheduling?

  You don’t mow the lawns in winter, you don’t weed as often in winter… guess what, you bring on casual staff for the summer to augment the crews and you work to maintain our public realm to ensure those tourist dollars continue to come.

  Or is this idea of casual staff the problem? Is this about job descriptions and unions and guys that salt roads in winter can’t do gardening in the summer?

• 24 Silly Season // Aug 10, 2012 at 1:55 pm

  @Joe Just Joe #15. I agree. Anecdotally, I am seeing more litter and garbage, all over the city.

  There are definitely fewer trash receptacles around, and I use the high traffic areas of West 4th and Denman as prime examples. I know, because I’ve walked blocks looking for bins. I have to assume that the City is trying to cut down on the cost of collection?

  Odd that we haven’t heard from city worker union leader Paul Faoro about this…

  The result is easy to see. More litter on the ground, more garbage in the laneways, gutters and in the uncut grass of our city commons.

  Can more rats be far behind?

  This absolutely does not excuse the slobs who drop their litter anywhere and everywhere. If you can’t find a bin, you should be packing your crap out with you.

  But that’s not happening and it is not likely to happen soon. Who gets a ticket for littering anymore? Who tells people to mind their community P’s & Q’s anymore (possibly for fear of getting a beating for doing so?).

  I am going to take you for a little walk down memory lane here.

  I remember as a child and young adult being TAUGHT that littering was akin to murder in this city. I especially remember having this stressed at school, that we were responsible for the things that happened in our environment, and in our community.

  Our teachers must have had a course plan that drummed this into our thick little skulls, because we were all very active about collecting garbage where and when we saw it—which was certainly a rarer circumstance back in the day. I can remember “garbage days” when, armed with big green Glad garbage bags we school kids scoured the ‘hood for errant trash. They may still do this, but I have not seen it myself.

  This was just not ‘ecoism’ that promoted the high-mindedness of saving our earth from oil spills or saving whales, though that’s the era I grew up in. This was something we could do at the local level, something that was very much in our power to do. It made us feel responsible, it made us feel proud for our city, and it made us feel good about our little contribution to the planet.

  It was about real, participatory civic pride, back then.

  We weren’t spouting empty slogans, thumping our chests and braying out hyperbolic bragging rights about being the “most liveable city in the world”. We did something to make the city better, cleaner. Yes, it all seems almost an anachronism, a far-off time when people still ‘believed’, came out to vote and engaged in many ways with their neighbours and neighbourhoods.

  With the emphasis on recycling and reducing and reusing, I have to wonder if the real message is really getting through to people. Or, is there any real message out there, at all?

  And it also seems to me that this Council doesn’t subscribe to the “broken windows’ theory about cities. In my opinion, it is the ‘little things” that help make city life better, not the grand gestures, as photo ready as they are for political parties.

  Or, perhaps they don’t like to being perceived as lecturing us. Fine, OK. Then educate us, or promote good citizenship (vis-a-vis the Volunteer program you are starting, though that will be limited to 1,500 or so as i understand it) or even point out why there are fewer garbage bins—and how we can help out. But, on this matter of garbage, we get—nothing.

  A Mayor (like Bloomberg, on his best days) should be someone who can say it like it is, is unafraid to tell us to collectively smarten up once in a while, and remind us that we are herefor a greater purpose that just to pay property taxes.

  The things that make Vancouver special are things related to the wellbeing of neighbourhoods, things we can see and experience on a small, everyday scale. Upkeep of our unique community centres (the envy of my Eastern friends), clean streets and “kempt” common areas are three things I can think of. You just feel better about the place, as a whole.

  When that happens, doesn’t it make people think that bigger problems can then be tackled, too? Wouldn’t it help people become believers, again?

  In the meantime, I will remind myself to pick up some trash this weekend, to be the change I want to see, in the world. Or, at least in Vancouver

  Will all our good, Grand Burghers at City Hall remember to do the same?

• 25 brilliant // Aug 10, 2012 at 2:26 pm

  @Silly Season-A council that turns a blind eye to events of mayhem like Critical Mass or the now frequent blockades of the Arthur Laing by the Musqueam is unlikely to be receptive to the Broken Windows theory.

• 26 Bill Lee // Aug 10, 2012 at 4:07 pm

  Lets bring back the “Corvée” for street litter and sweeping.
  And since we have ‘new’ districts, people would have to sweep and clean up an antipodal(?) or opposite district.
  Shaughnessy would do DTES, Killarney would do Point Grey etc.
  Rain or shine. Gloves and thin overalls would be supplied. 8 hours per day which should cover the daylight times all year.

• 27 Michael Geller // Aug 11, 2012 at 9:16 am

  As listeners to the CKNW Civic Affairs Panel may have noticed, I do get a bit more exercised about litter in the city than my fellow panelists But I am grateful to Frances for posting this blog entry.

  here’s a link to my blog posting and the Vancouver Sun story listed above by Frances: http://gellersworldtravel.blogspot.ca/2009/04/spring-cleaning-for-vancouver.html

  A more recent blog complained about the weeds growing along a portion of the first phase North Shore False Creek seawalk, which neighbours had consistently asked the Park Board to address, to little avail (although I am pleased to be told my blog and photos may have helped…the weeds have subsequently been removed.

  Following last week’s Bill Good Show, I walked past the Art Gallery where bark mulch and a few weeds decorate one of the most prime corners in our city…(so much for greening Vancouver), and a single concrete planter was filled with rubbish and weeds.

  I could not help but contrast this with the streets of downtown Chicago which I visited a week ago…full of beautifully maintained flowers.

  I was told the extensive planting in downtown Chicago was in part the result of some encouragement from Mayor Daley’s wife…whatever the reason…the downtown plantings are now quite magnificent.

  So is the litter problem in our city getting worse? I think so. And just as I said in my op-ed, there are solutions.

  Public and private sector companies need to install smoking posts outside all Skytrain stations and other transit stops. (Advertise on them, if necessary to fund placement and maintenance.)

  We need more garbage cans and I’d suggest more ‘big belly’ solar compactors which don’t require such frequent service, and the Dutch system that uses large underground containers which one sees throughout European cities.

  We need to encourage smokers and gum chewers not to throw their residue on the pavement… and we need to engender more civic pride…and start shaming people who unnecessarily litter if necessary.

  We also need to remove graffiti from lamp posts, electrical boxes, etc.

  I would also like to see more ‘adopt a block’ programs….I know there are some around the city…just look at some of the landscaped roundabouts.

  Finally, perhaps it’s time for Vancouver to participate in the Communities in Bloom program again.

  All of this would be a start…and then we could move on to addressing the pigsty known as the Downtown Eastside which horrified my out of town guests yesterday en route to a tour of the Woodwards development. But that’s another story.

• 28 Boohoo // Aug 11, 2012 at 10:38 am

  I can’t help but wonder why those residents who consistently asked the park board to come weed the path don’t just go out and do it themselves.

  We complain about ‘essential’ services being cut and then waste time and money badgering the city to come do things we could easily do.

• 29 Everyman // Aug 11, 2012 at 11:38 am

  @Michael Geller 27
  The Art Gallery “plaza” is indeed the city’s greatest civic embarassment. A total disgrace.

  The parks crew can do great work, take a look at the garden in between Malkin Bowl and the Pavillion.

• 30 F.H.Leghorn // Aug 11, 2012 at 11:42 am

  @boo#28: “…things we could easily do”. I’ve lived in Kits for 26 years. For a long time there was no sweet-sweeping but for the last few years it comes around about once a year. Before that I lived in Strathcona and the sweeper never came around. Sure, it’s a hassle to place the no-parking signs and tow away cars which fail to comply, but if they can enforce sprinkling by-laws and schedule weekly garbage pick-up it should be possible to post a street-cleaning schedule.
  Meantime I sweep the gutter in front of my property and meekly pay the $8K annual property tax. Takes about 20 minutes and combats the slum mentality that seems oddly prevalent despite the ridiculously high property values.

• 31 Silly Season // Aug 11, 2012 at 11:48 am

  @Boohoo

  Weed the path?

  Don’t know what that is, but the boulevards all over town, many with grassy medians in the middle, sure need a clipping.

• 32 Silly Season // Aug 11, 2012 at 11:54 am

  Love all your suggestions, @Michael Geller #27.

  Especially about bins (the Dutch system sound interesting) and improving that sad situation outside of the VAG. That’s one of our only “main squares”.

• 33 Boohoo // Aug 11, 2012 at 12:23 pm

  @31

  I was replying to post 27 where he said people repeatedly complain about weeds on the path. Everyone want someone else to do something and then complains when something else doesn’t get done.

• 34 waltyss // Aug 11, 2012 at 5:53 pm

  Frances I take your point that each year we complain about a dirtier, shaggier, more unkempt city with little objective proof. It seems that if your party is in power, then it is cleaner or about the same. If your party is out of po wer, then the city has become one giant sewer.
  Certainly there appear to be fewer garbage cans although this appears to have neen the case for several years. I have always assumed without any proof that it was a security issue particularly during high profile events.
  @Michael Geller #27 and @ everyman #29, I recently called the city to complain about the state of the VAG fountain its brachish slough like water. I was told that the fountain the square belonged to the province and were their responsibility. I was called back subsequently by the VAG who informed me that, yes, it was the Province, that the pump on the fountain was gone and that they would drain the fountain which they did. They did not tell me whether they were going to fix it. I don’t know for certain whether those ugly flower planters are also the province’s but would assume so. They are unquestionably ugly and an embarassment. Maybe Premier Chirpy Cheeks can take a break from her busy schedule fighting with Alberta and thinking up soundbites to have it attended to. To be serious for a moment, however, all of this may simply be a demonstration of not being able to have our cake and eat it too. You can’t complain about high taxes and at the same time want the same lawn cutting schedule or have the change rooms checked every hour.

• 35 waltyss // Aug 11, 2012 at 10:56 pm

  Leghorn Forhorn, your cellmate Glissy the Remnant did you one better when he in his oh so refined manner said: “Is it me, or the self entitled assholeism is alive and kicking inside Vancouver’s City Hall these days?”But I guess that is not infantile name calling or so your silence seems to suggest.
  And the fact that you believe calling the leader of the opposition a vile obscene name is the equivalent of something that may not be funny but is clearly not disgusting says something both about your intelligence and the nature of what some may call your mind.
  Given your intelligence, I should not be surprised that you missed the point of Bula’s article or my post. I apologize that you didn’t get the point of my comment about the premier. While |I believe she is completely beyond her depth,, my point is that neither the Premier nor the mayor can be blamed for the litter on their property. And that if in fact their is more litter (far from clear), it may have more to do with budget cuts.
  And I have a deal for you, when you and your compatriots on the right stop their racist and vile name calling, I will stop calling the premier Chirpy Cheeks.

• 36 F.H.Leghorn // Aug 12, 2012 at 8:59 am

  “Racist”? Moi? Ouch. Next you’ll be comparing me to Hitler.
  Might is right, not me. You, the NDP and your fellow-travellers from the haut-bourgeois enclave on Cortes represent all that’s left of The Left. As your tiresome tirades demonstrate ad nauseum their “friends” are their worst enemies. Keep it up.
  In Belize the late, great Sir Barry Bowen donated hundreds of orange trash bins to every town and village accompanied by the slogan “Hey man, betta no litta”.

• 37 Silly Season // Aug 12, 2012 at 9:24 am

  @ Ummm. #36. Hyberole much, Waltyss?

  I don’t see how your japes and jibes, deflection and change of subject helps move this conversation along, but I suppose it has some entertainment value. I guess.

  Anyhoo.

  Re: your comment #31. “Objective’ evidence”.
  Speaking about taxpayer money, do you expect some CH staffer to walk around counting pieces of litter and cig butts?

  I believe in data collection but that would just be…Silly. How about more trash collection along the city’s common areas, instead?

  The evidence is quite abundant and easily accessible.

  You won’t have to look for “disappeared” environmental reports on the new City Hall website, or access the musty virtual online stacks at VPL (BTW, thanks @Bill Lee. can you please help me with my next university paper? . I am in awe of your knowledge/detective work/research chops).

  No, it’s really quite simple, and it’s right in front of you.

  It’s called “opening your eyes”.

• 38 F.H.Leghorn // Aug 12, 2012 at 10:08 am

  @Waltyss#36: Re “budget cuts”. Another oft-repeated NDP lie. In fact, budgets at the municipal, provincial and federal level increase every year. There have never, repeat NEVER, been any cuts to any of those budgets.
  Services are often cut in order to meet unsustainable salary and benefits packages for the public employees. Eventually this leads to bankruptcy as seen in cities in California and elsewhere in the good old US of A (google Stockton for a glimpse of what an NDP future portends ). As long as political weasels continue to get elected by bribing voters with their own money this situation wil continue.

• 39 waltyss // Aug 12, 2012 at 10:42 am

  Leghorn foghorn, before you get on your high and mighty horse, and suggest I am calling you Hitler, look who drove the exchange to its lowest common denominator when you relook at what you called Adrian Dix.
  You hate the NDP. Great. You and about 20% of the population do too. It’s called democracy. About 50% support the NDP. I know that you think this is a result of bribery by “political weasels (no name calling there, of course) but that is the way it goes. Like the thing “brilliant not” you probably believe that renters and poor people should not have a vote. Unfortunatly most people with that view left at the time of the French Revolution.
  I happen to have voted Liberal in the last 4 elections but believe this government is so far beyond its best before date that it really really stinks. Choosing a leader clearly out of her depth has just made it worse (if that were possible).
  Will the NDP be better? It would be hard not to be but they will not be perfect and their best before date too willl pass.
  We seem to have gone off on this tangent from my comment that the VAG square is the responsibility of the provincial government. It is funny how even that benign comments roused the rabid right.
  @Silly Season. All I was doing was agreeing with the point of Bula’s article that trash in the summer has been a perennial issue. And making the further comment that how dirty you think it is tends to be a function of whether your party is in or not. Your eyes appear to be open to trash everywhere; that is probably not the view of most people who too have open eyes. I was certainly not advocating bureaucrats counting trash.
  One area where I agree with you is that we do need more trash bins around particularly in the downtown core. I suspect however that doing so would have little effect on the litterers.

• 40 Silly Season // Aug 12, 2012 at 12:51 pm

  @Waltyss. Take a walk down West 41st Avenue, from Kerrisdale Village to Dunbar. What a stye.

  I agree that part of this problem is driven by the individual. But I suspect such litterers come from all parties, and all parts of the city.

  Being an inconsiderate twit knows no political affiliation.

  Off to Downtown to see what it looks like at English Bay, Gastown, Denman Street.

• 41 Terry M // Aug 12, 2012 at 3:48 pm

  REQUIRED READING!

  “@Waltyss#36: Re “budget cuts”. Another oft-repeated NDP lie. In fact, budgets at the municipal, provincial and federal level increase every year. There have never, repeat NEVER, been any cuts to any of those budgets.
  Services are often cut in order to meet unsustainable salary and benefits packages for the public employees. Eventually this leads to bankruptcy as seen in cities in California and elsewhere in the good old US of A (google Stockton for a glimpse of what an NDP future portends ). As long as political weasels continue to get elected by bribing voters with their own money this situation wil continue.”
  Thanks FHL @39

• 42 Julia // Aug 12, 2012 at 4:27 pm

  I don’t like to be blackmailed by local politicians that give me the choice of less litter pickup and street repairs OR higher taxes.

  There is a big black hole with no number on it in the city budget called “council priorities” which is sucking the life out of core services.

  Stop spending money on things outside your jurisdiction and mandate. Stop paying for things that are designed to make you look good as a politician. Fix the roads, pick up the trash, mow the lawns. PERIOD.

• 43 waltyss // Aug 12, 2012 at 11:51 pm

  @TerryM. Since you are clearly of the rabid right persuasion, I guess you just overlooked what Glassy Remnant or brilliant not or teririch or other City Caucus adherents post. I guess, like litter, it is in the eye of the beholder.
  Stockton CA. Well, I believe Stockton like so many things American provided the services but would not pay for them. I believe they also played the stockmarket and lost. Nontheless, if you believe that Stockton is foreshadows what will happen under the NDP, then you have your ideological blinkers on and there is little to discuss.
  To change the topic slightly, I was just in Portland OR and noticed there were more trash containers but which on a Sunday morning were stuffed full and had piles of trash beside them. I found myself wondering which was worse: no garbage cans or overflowing unsightly ones. Not sure what I think on that.

• 44 GjM // Aug 13, 2012 at 12:35 am

  I have established a Facebook page dealing with that abomination on the Georgia St. side of the Art Gallery. I would love for you guys to check it out and put a voice to it.

  I’m like many of you, I do see the disappointment in our city upkeep as being valid. And it goes deeper, too deep to begin here. I’m interested in forming a citizens’ initiative to both pressure the city to do its share AND to start a citizen participation program in the care of our city.

  The Faceook page in regards to returning the green to the VAG is a start, I could use some support. Please visit, “like” and “share” it.

  http://www.facebook.com/GreenAtTheVag

  Words without action are empty.

• 45 spartikus // Aug 13, 2012 at 9:04 am

  Stockton, like many other U.S. cities, was devastated by the subprime lending crisis which this led to a collapse in revenues. It also went on a spending spree during the “good times”.

  It does not follow that the NDP will follow the behaviour of the city council of Stockton, or Stalin, or Pol Pot or any of the others I’ve seen them compared to on these boards.

  Especially since Stockton had Republican Mayors at the time it went on the spree.

• 46 IanS // Aug 13, 2012 at 9:24 am

  “It does not follow that the NDP will follow the behaviour of the city council of Stockton, or Stalin, or Pol Pot or any of the others I’ve seen them compared to on these boards.”

  I agree with Spartikus on this one. Whatever one may think of Adrian Dix, I don’t think it’s fair to suggest that he is similar to Stalin or Pol Pot.

• 47 Michael Geller // Aug 13, 2012 at 10:00 am

  #Boohoo, I think you have raised a good question…if city businesses or residents don’t like the weeds growing through the waterfront walkway, why don’t they remove them themselves?

  I wondered the same thing. After all, many of us do remove the weeds on city boulevards in front of our homes, and remove the debris collecting around the drains.

  I suspect there are a number of answers. For one thing, people are not sure whether they are allowed to alter public works. While weeding may seem benign, can I fix the potholes on the street in front of my house? I don’t think so, although I’d be delighted if someone did challenge the status quo by doing so.

  I suspect some people feel that since they pay taxes, the city should be responsible for the maintenance of the seawall and adjacent walkway. I think this is reasonable, although to be honest, if I owned C Restaurant, and the weeds were impacting my customers enjoyment of the patio, I would have weeded the space.

  So here’s another suggestion for the City politicians and administration. If there is a problem with funding, then initiate a conversation with the public. Let us know what is permissable, and what is not. Facilitate community clean-up days and similar endeavours…they may take on a life of their own over time, as they have in some neighbourhoods.

  At the risk of some ridicule on the Bill Good Show, I suggested that one reason the grass was not being cut too often was in part related to the city’s sustainability goals. I know from past experience that many landscape designers advocate letting grasses grow to create a more natural looking landscape. Ground covers are preferred over grass, and planting ornamental flowers is somewhat scorned.

  If this is the Park Board’s thinking, again this should be shared. If I’m completely off base, I’d be happy to be told so!

  But for what it’s worth, I personally prefer the colourful plantings in Chicago, or along major roads in Richmond, (just drive along Gilbert and No 2 Road to name two examples) to the ‘natural’ look of the grey plastic planters defining the bike lanes along Hornby Street, or the central landscape median that I advocated for along Cambie Street from the bridgehead to City Hall many years ago.

• 48 lB // Aug 13, 2012 at 10:45 am

  This seems like a great time to mention the Keep Vancouver Spectacular program – in case anyone wants to volunteer (you can do it anytime): http://vancouver.ca/people-programs/keep-vancouver-spectacular.aspx

• 49 Silly Season // Aug 13, 2012 at 11:17 am

  @IB Thank you. i knew we had at least one annual clean-up day. Any idea of how it was communicated to the public? Online? Ads? Promos/ (would make awesome PSA).

  @Michael Geller #48 I think you have hit the nail on the head. I feel it is rare when Park Board or City Hall explains WHY the DO or WHY they DON’T they do things.

  Always seems to be about the “big announcement”. I think the public is cynical about those, worrying only about costs or optics, without understanderstanding underlying reasons or where projects may fit into overall civic strategies and the ‘big picture’.

  Ummm. We do have goals and strategies and a ‘big picture’.

  Dont we?

• 50 IanS // Aug 13, 2012 at 11:38 am

  I was traveling in Rwanda last month. It’s a very clean country and I was interested to learn that the last Saturday of every month is a country wide “clean up” day. All stores are closed and pretty much everyone is expected to spend at least the morning cleaning up their villages etc. We were in Butare (now Huye) the last Saturday of July and got to see it in action.

  I suspect such an event is not practical here, but it seemed to work in Rwanda.

• 51 Sharon Townsend // Aug 13, 2012 at 11:49 am

  It would be nice if businesses would maintain their boulevards but in most cases they don’t – here’s why.

  If the owner is not on site, a staff person arrives at 9:55 to open at 10am. If you are lucky, there is a broom in the shop to sweep the sidewalk. If there is time to sweep the sidewalk – we cheer.

  Where does that sidewalk responsibility begin and end. This applies to snow removal too. Crosswalks? If the shop is on a corner, are we asking the staff to mow the boulevard on the side street too? Lawn mowers are not usually in the back of the shop.

  When you have businesses with senior management off site, or in different cities… store front maintenance beyond window cleaning is simply not on the radar.

  In some BIA jurisdictions there are ‘clean teams’ that do litter pickup, poster removal etc. They are great partnerships with the Coast Foundation which offers transition employment and skills training for people with mental health concerns.

  The landscaping side, or snow removal responsibilities are a crap shoot. Some BIAs such as South Granville employ a landscaping company to come in and clear the tree pits of suckers and try to keep some level of maintenance on the street. In many cases, these activities are discouraged because we are infringing on CUPE jurisdiction.

  There was a sidewalk sweeper purchased by the city before the Olympics – I have not seen it around in months.

• 52 waltyss // Aug 13, 2012 at 11:56 am

  @Michael Geller #48
  I like your suggestions. Also, since y9u were touting Chicago (incredible city), how do we get developers to do more interesting architecture in Vancouver (our city is embarassingly lacking in interesting architecture) and how do we get developers to support public art on their developments, as they do in Chicago?

• 53 Mira // Aug 13, 2012 at 12:46 pm

  LOL, TerryM #42
  Bang on, bang on on our pal … Watanass $36 #40 #45 ! And what a good strong strapping boy name!
  W… Whaaa, no Mira, in your NDP/Vision Black List?
  I feel a bit left out, kinda disappointed, awww…
  Joke’s on you buddy boy!

• 54 waltyss // Aug 13, 2012 at 12:58 pm

  Mira, honey, sorry for not including you with the others but you are truly in a category of your own as your racist postings on the What is a true Vancouverite demonstrate.
  I would not want to tarnish the others reputations (such as they are) by including someone like you with them.

• 55 teririch // Aug 13, 2012 at 2:38 pm

  @waltyss:

  I do enjoy the fact that you single out certain commentors as being advid City Caucus posters while ignoring your own frequent participation on that board.

  Just pointing out the obvious.

• 56 Raingurl // Aug 14, 2012 at 9:10 am

  It was very nice to walk passed the old Pantages theatre site last night and see the new slum lord in town finally cleaned up his pile of rubble. At least that pile of crap is gone. I hope he took his rats home with him.

• 57 F.h.Leghorn // Aug 14, 2012 at 10:36 am

  @raingurl#56: Characterizing Marc Williams as a “slum lord” is unfair in the extreme. Mr. Williams fought City Hall for three years in an attempt to preserve a unique heritage landmark and lost. The City had no problem re-zoning the site for condo development.
  The real slum-lords of the DTES are groups like the Portland Hotel Society and Atira. “Activists” and poverty pimps continue to advocate for an expansion of the failed policies of the last 30 years which have created a dysfunctional welfare ghetto and open-air asylum.
  The pile of crap on the Pantages site is gone but it thrives on the sidewalks and alleys of the 100 block East Hastings.

• 58 Raingurl // Aug 14, 2012 at 11:39 am

  I classify Mr. Williams as a slum lord because he left HIS property full of garbage for well over a year. He allowed rats to live on HIS property and in turn those rats went over to the Sahota slum lord’s building, the Regent Hotel……..He is a slum lord. You say it’s unfair of me to characterize him this way but what he did to the residents was unfair. What city hall did to the residents was unfair. If that was Kerrisdale or Coal Harbour, that site would have been cleaned up within the week. I’m sorry, you can’t change my mind on this one. Mr. Williams lost me as a potential buyer for any and all of his properties. I agree with your comment about the poverty pimps. I’m not one of them, FYI.

• 59 Silly Season // Aug 14, 2012 at 12:53 pm

  @Raingurl. Your comment #58

  Thank you, thank you, thank YOU! for proving again, that not everyone here is a one-dimensional cartoon figure, holding fast to absolute idealogy, in all things, regardless whether it makes sense or not!

  In this case, people who are ‘right of centre’ should hold accountable those private businesses that are not playing by the rules everyone is expected to follow as per your comments about maintaining commercial property sites. Just as those on the left (and I have met many who agree, but are too afraid to voice their disapproval) should hold those entrenched in the DTES power structure (and yes, it exists), to accounts.

• 60 Johnny Needles // Aug 14, 2012 at 1:01 pm

  Dirt is green. Get used to it.

• 61 teririch // Aug 14, 2012 at 3:08 pm

  @Raingurl#58:

  Although I agree with most of your comment – some of that debris, the garbage that was on that site was discarded there by others. You will see the same on other empty lots in the DTES and Lord knows, Surrey has its issues with people dumping garbage freely into empty lots. (They have a really bad problem in certain areas)

  I think this goes to the other topic on hand – general upkeep of the city.

  Sadly, people will try to get away with whatever they can and that is an issue in itself.

• 62 Raingurl // Aug 14, 2012 at 3:10 pm

  Speaking of garbage and the DTES, what’s up with the sidewalks and streets down there? They’re so dusty and full of CRAP, CRAP, I say! I’d hate to say it but we need some more rain to wash that crap away! Where’s the city crews for the DTE$?

  CRAP!

• 63 Raingurl // Aug 14, 2012 at 3:55 pm

  @ teririch / 60. I’ve seen people rooting through the garbage that was dumped there by others. They were rooting through garbage alongside the rats. It’s such a sad state of affairs. Vancouver is suppose to be a world class city. We’ve had a world exposition and we’ve had the Olympics yet a few blocks east of the cauldron the environment looks like there was just an earthquake or a twister. I’ll never get used to it and I shouldn’t have to……….I want to move to Strathcona, it’s such a lovely area but I would have to walk through that environment every day to get to work. It’s not clean and it’s not good for my mental health.

• 64 F.H.Leghorn // Aug 14, 2012 at 5:11 pm

  One-, I say one-dimensional??? I can’t help it. I AM a cartoon figure.

• 65 Raingurl // Aug 15, 2012 at 9:03 am

  Some days I wish I was one dimensional, I’d be way thinner then. hehe )

• 66 Silly Season // Aug 15, 2012 at 4:52 pm

  F.H. Leghorn:

  Well played, sir!

• 67 Terry M // Aug 15, 2012 at 7:17 pm

  OMG…
  What now Frances? deleting posts?
  how come Waltyss’s name calling makes the grade?
  no wonder that the former City caucus heckler have become the Frances Bula’s gate keeper!
  Vision operatives are all over the place.
  Disgusting.

• 68 Michelle // Aug 15, 2012 at 8:09 pm

  “no wonder that the former City caucus heckler have become the Frances Bula’s gate keeper!”
  Noticed that, TerryM! What’s new?
  “What now Frances? deleting posts?”
  BTW, you talking about post#41 or $42?

• 69 F.H.Leghorn // Aug 15, 2012 at 9:40 pm

  To be fair I did give the leader of the opposition a vulgar nickname (Sux). Apparently Waltyss can dish it out, but can’t take it. Like all Visionistas: no sense of humour.

• 70 waltyss // Aug 16, 2012 at 12:09 am

  Foghorn, leghorn, I did not ask for your post to be removed so I fail to see how I cannot take it. At the same time, I cannot say that I am displeased that it is gone. It had no claim to humour, just to a sick and disgusting mind.
  Terry M, you seem to believe that this site is reserved for the rabid looney right, the refugees from City Caucus. Hate to tell you, but just judging by the last vote, there are more of us of the political persuasion that you hate.
  And Terry M, would you care to show me where my “namecalling” is the qualitative equivalent of the spewings of Foghorn Leghornor his ilk.
  And talk about a scary thought police, the rabid right seems to police back on any thread to notice a deleted post.
  Actually I thought it was one of you (Foghorn Leghorn, Michelle, Terry M on Tuesday on the Bill Good Show when a female caller said the city paid for 30 people to go to the Olympics on a trade mission. When Bula pointed out that it was 7, the woman said she didn’t believe her. It certainly sounded like something a City Caucus refugee “don’t bother me with facts” brigage would say or think.

• 71 West End Gal // Aug 16, 2012 at 2:17 pm

  “Whoa, whoa… mommy, the kids are mean to me, whoa, whoa…!”
  What happened, Waltyss?
  The City Caucus children are making fun of you , and you can’t stop them?
  Awww… so sad, but don’t despair, look… you have an overprotective Fabula!
  Better grow up!

• 72 waltyss // Aug 16, 2012 at 2:24 pm

  @West End Gil
  Just like annoying pesky mosquitoes, the looney right is all in a dither because the sick posting of one of their number was deleted. Like mosquitoes, they are definitely annoying but ultimately of no consequence.
  Gil, your post doesn’t even make sense but what else is new.

• 73 Julia // Aug 16, 2012 at 2:26 pm

  Frances, you say 7 went to the Olympics for the economic meetings on the city tab. Does that include the folks from VEC which is essentially the city tab as well?

• 74 brilliant // Aug 16, 2012 at 2:49 pm

  Its kind of funny waltsyss rants about CityCaucus refugees, when he was posting there first. On the other hand its completely possible he has an advanced degree in sock puppetry.

• 75 Frances Bula // Aug 16, 2012 at 8:06 pm

  @Julia. Yes, that was city and VEC people combined. I agree, anyone from VEC is essentially going on city money as well.

• 76 Frances Bula // Aug 16, 2012 at 8:08 pm

  @Terry. I remove posts that I judge to be too vulgar, even for a former fisherperson like me.

• 77 Julia // Aug 16, 2012 at 8:45 pm

  thanks Frances. If I recall correctly, the $100,000 price tag for Lonon was for 3-4 staff so I am assuming the delegation of 7 was more than $100,000?

  kaching.

• 78 Julia // Aug 16, 2012 at 8:46 pm

  London! I hate spell check on my ipad

• 79 teririch // Aug 17, 2012 at 11:44 am

  $100,000 for 7 people works out to a cost of $14,286 per traveler. Now, I do a lot of traveling with my job and would be ‘shot’ if I dared to submit such an expense.

  My question – did the 30 co’s that went along on this junket pay for themselves or were they taxpayer subsidized?

• 80 Julia // Aug 17, 2012 at 1:19 pm

  teririch #79

  It was interesting to see the tweets that came out of that trip. It was an exercise in trying to justify why they were there.

  http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Vancouver+spend+send+seven+including+mayor+Olympics+lure+London+investors/7026198/story.html

• 81 Silly Season // Aug 17, 2012 at 1:24 pm

  I understand that London was offering hotel discounts of up to 60% during the Olympics, since people were staying away in droves.

  Surely, our civic leaders asked for some accomodation money back?? At the very least.

  I’m sure some intrepid reporter will be asking/FOI’ing requests for receipts and expenses.

• 82 teririch // Aug 17, 2012 at 2:15 pm

  @Silly Season #81:

  I would hope that the MSM does attempt to disect the costs, but then, you have to also hope that they don’t get one of those ‘sanitized’ versions from the CoV – you know, the ones where the big black marker is used to ‘black out’ anything they don’t want the little people to see.

• 83 teririch // Aug 17, 2012 at 2:23 pm

  @Julia #80

  Thanks for that. Even better; we ‘taxpayers’ paid $90,000 for 4 people to attend for 14 days and for 3 to attend 3 days.

  But I feel so relieved to learn the Mayor and Magee shared a room. to ‘help keep the costs down’. I would love to know if it was a hotel room or a penthouse or a suite or what.

  Rolls eyes.

• 84 Julia // Aug 17, 2012 at 2:47 pm

  Teririch… you are missing something – Robertson is not the mayor – Magee is.

• 85 Ned // Aug 17, 2012 at 3:52 pm

  I wonder…
  What would Waltyss say?
  (maybe he is … the Mayor!)
  

• 86 waltyss // Aug 17, 2012 at 6:44 pm

  Well, Ned, be still your beating heart, you can read what I have to say.
  Reading you guys (the haters of the rabid looney right) is entertaining in that one of you makes something up and then the others run with it as fact and build it into something totally unrelated to anything else except your nut wing hatemongering.
  Let me explain:
  If one looks on the VEC site or any news articles about the issue, it has always put forward as $100,000 for 7 , people funded by the City of Vancouver to go.
  @Julia (acknowledged Vision hater and technophobe) says at post #77 that [she] “recalls” that was for 3-4 people and then through a perversion of deductive reasoning suggests the cost was much more. No evidence, just a “recollection” that magically becomes a conclusion.
  Not to be outdone, @teririch, another Vision hater and acknowledged oiland mining industry apologist simplistically divides $100,000 by 7 and asserts that if she were to claim that for going out and apologizing for gas and oil, she would be shot.
  Of course, neither I nor she knows what the claim is made up of. It is possible, but unlikely that she is right. We know the Mayor, City Manager and the Mayor’s chief of staff were there for 3 days while VEC people were there longer. We do not know what the $100,000 was comprised of and whether it includes payment for displays, rental space or just plane fares, lodging and meals for 7 people.
  From the articles, we are told that the Mayor and his Chief of Staff shared a room. We are told from the article that $10,000 of the $100,000 was contributed by the Mayor’s office budget so we could just as easily conclude that the Mayor, his Chief of Staff and even possibly the City Manager attended for a total cost of $10,000, which anyone who knows anything about international travel at this level would consider a bargain. Having senior elected officials there is good for selling the business whether the mayor or premier’s political persuasion [And by the way, I did not hear you haters beating yourselves into a froth over the premier’s trip, even though she is clearly unqualified for anything weightier than a soundbite, but that’s another topic)
  I am not saying that it is what the $100,000 reperesents, my point is simply neither I nor you haters know; however, you haters are prepared to speculate and make things up and then beat yourselves into a self righteous indignation screaming as though your speculation is fact.
  teririch then, well accustomed to making things up as an oil industry apologist, assserts that we will get a sanitized version of any expenses under FOI. Again, I know real information is pointless and is not the object of the exercise, but section 22 (4)(h) of the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act makes it clear that “expenses incurred by the third party while travelling at the expense of a public body” which is to say the expenses of the Mayor, his Chief of Staff, or the City Manager travelling at City expense are not exempt from disclosure under FOIPPA. Again, I know that making such an application would make your lips sore and would wear out your crayons. My point is simply that the actual information (not the made up stuff) is there if you really want it.
  I appreciate that the object of the exercise is to spew your bile and to sling mud, not to debate at to whether the trip was a useful use of the taxpayers’ money, wouldn’t a few facts help?
  I appreciate that fairness has no place in it, but most fairminded people who know anything about travel particularly long distance travel, would not consider a three day round trip across 8 time zones to be a desirable “junket”; they would consider it work and even nightmarish.
  However, this is pointless because the point of your bilge is not honest debate or facts, it is to spew hate. I get it; i really too. I am simply baying at the moon for being what it is.
  And Ned, like the rest of your ilk, you are wrong. I am not the Mayor, I am the Walrus. and it is not kaching, but koo koo ka choo.

• 87 F.H.Polonius // Aug 17, 2012 at 6:59 pm

  “…brevity is the soul of wit,
  And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes…”
  Hamlet Act 2 Scene 2

• 88 teririch // Aug 18, 2012 at 9:38 am

  @waltyss #86″

  Ahhh, still clinging onto you need for me to be involved with oil and gas, and as I have stated numerous times, I am attached to neither. I am not employed by now, nor have worked for that industry in the past, nor have any investment in.

  But, by your reasoning, if someone states that an article on the industry is ‘balanced’ then automatically that person is employed by oil/gas.

  Talk about a hater – turn that mirror on yourself.

  That is all you spew.

  And it is boring.

• 89 Mira // Aug 18, 2012 at 11:02 am

  terrich #88
  Forgive Waltyss, as he doesn’t know better.
  Must be hard for him to cope with the daily routine in his little office, looking out the window… looking forward to his socialist NDP boys coming into office next year. Aaahh, the parties, the spending, the vendettas, bigger contracts, expense accounts (like his local boys from VISION), bigger office, new Armani suits… meanwhile he has to fill out his time with blogs like this writing his insightful posts. Am I right?

• 90 waltyss // Aug 18, 2012 at 11:48 am

  @teririch: I know that actually reading something in the English language is difficult for you. But let me try. I never said that you worked for the oil and gas industry; I said you were an apologist for them. I stand by that.
  @Mira, sorry, but debating with racists is pointless and so I have nothing to say to you.

• 91 brilliant // Aug 18, 2012 at 2:06 pm

  @waltsyss 86-thank you for the unhinged rant du jour.

• 92 F.H.Leghorn // Aug 18, 2012 at 4:26 pm

  @Mira#90: Nothing wrong with Armani suits. I own three.

• 93 Norman // Aug 21, 2012 at 10:30 am

  My street is regularly cleaned with a street sweeper, potholes instantly repaired, etc. Why? Because it’s a bike route.

• 94 jenables // Aug 22, 2012 at 1:33 pm

  Heh heh heh. Just LOVED reading that list of companies the vec represents. Also LOVED the part regarding the high commissioner…picturing him and Gregor rubbing elbows (let’s go for a three-peat!) Is unsurprising to say the least. Regarding garbages; let’s be realistic about them, not idealistic. I visited the Olympic village, finally. I wanted to dislike it, but….i couldn’t. At twelve thirty at night no one else is around. I thought, here’s where all the public art is! Dog poops… No walking around for ages trying to finda garbage before stuffing it (ew) into a locked dumpster (sorry!), nope, they have big belly solar powered trash compacting garbage cans here, within eyesight at all times, pretty lights, little bridges, how easy it must be to live,walk and bike around this well lit, presentation center style village, look over at the viaducts and think…ew. Those are really ugly, it’s ruining my view, and my property value and…..UGH…are those weeds?? This is unacceptable! Weeds! In our village! Our habitat if you will…we’re doing OUR part, why can’t they??

  Meanwhile…..small garbage cans disappear from bus stops around the city. The message seems to be…take your garbage on the bus with you. Hold it in your hand, or your pocket or purse, then hope you find one when you get off. It’s all part of making transit more appealing, of course, adding a little garbage to the picture seems delightfully apt. (given the general cleanliness of buses) geniuses also removed for a. time the containers that the garbage goes into so it was piled up in cages on the east side, spilling into the street. I’ve mentioned before that some areas i walk at night seem to be crazy dark..is it the streetlights, or an increase in the dead silence and darkness of unoccupied homes?
  My last observation: those reflective bumps on the road serve a purpose, so when visibility is poor, one can still see what lane they are in. Newly installed on prior….six inches away from the line? Am i the only one who is irritated by this? It’s the yellow line, and it’s at it’s worst where the road s curves and people already take liberties with opposing traffic. Is there something i am missing here?

• 95 West End Gal // Aug 24, 2012 at 1:39 pm

  Removing garbage cans throughout the city, and replacing them with the Gregorbage Recycling bins may be a feast for binners … but starting that gracious day when they announced the new garbage contraptions (btw the idea was not original in the least, though they wanted to appropriate it for their own image… that of garbage, I could only assume)
  Where is all the dog shit going to go?
  On your lawns, on your car mates and in between you sandaled toes.
  So fffffff you Vision! And thanks. Not.

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