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	<title>Comments on: The debate over Vancouver&#8217;s 2010 bylaws</title>
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	<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/the-debate-over-vancouvers-2010-bylaws/</link>
	<description>Vancouver city life and politics</description>
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		<title>By: Todd Sieling</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/the-debate-over-vancouvers-2010-bylaws/comment-page-1/#comment-13828</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Sieling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 00:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=1825#comment-13828</guid>
		<description>Yeah, without a sunset clause and a strict definition of what constitutes &#039;peaceful protest&#039; the bylaws are a total power grab and won&#039;t be rescinded, no matter how pure the intent. 

This is such a choreographed Olympics, with the absolute denial of socially regressive actions early on, like this great number from the po&#039; about how they absolutely will not be moving homeless people to tidy up the streets: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/03/27/bc-no-olympic-homeless-crackdown-police.html and then springing new plans, rules and bylaws complete with Bush-style free speech zones just months before the games. Can you feel the spirit?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, without a sunset clause and a strict definition of what constitutes &#8216;peaceful protest&#8217; the bylaws are a total power grab and won&#8217;t be rescinded, no matter how pure the intent. </p>
<p>This is such a choreographed Olympics, with the absolute denial of socially regressive actions early on, like this great number from the po&#8217; about how they absolutely will not be moving homeless people to tidy up the streets: <a href="http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/03/27/bc-no-olympic-homeless-crackdown-police.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/03/27/bc-no-olympic-homeless-crackdown-police.html</a> and then springing new plans, rules and bylaws complete with Bush-style free speech zones just months before the games. Can you feel the spirit?</p>
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		<title>By: T W</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/the-debate-over-vancouvers-2010-bylaws/comment-page-1/#comment-13823</link>
		<dc:creator>T W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 19:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=1825#comment-13823</guid>
		<description>I am less concerned with the arbitrary and even capricious powers to be bestowed on civic officials during the 2010 Olympics. I am more concerned  that,  once having tasted the powers of unfettered  discretion, our officials, elected and non-elected,  might actually like to  throw their weight around. The same &quot;in the public good&#039;&#039; argument might prevail.

Just another Cassandra</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am less concerned with the arbitrary and even capricious powers to be bestowed on civic officials during the 2010 Olympics. I am more concerned  that,  once having tasted the powers of unfettered  discretion, our officials, elected and non-elected,  might actually like to  throw their weight around. The same &#8220;in the public good&#8221; argument might prevail.</p>
<p>Just another Cassandra</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/the-debate-over-vancouvers-2010-bylaws/comment-page-1/#comment-13821</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 18:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=1825#comment-13821</guid>
		<description>The City Manager gets anointed at 4.1 - 4D [p. 28]. The Mayor gets anointed at 7.1 - 19A [p. 29]. The City Engineer gets multiple anointings at 10 - 104(1)(q) ... 10 - 104(14)(e) [p. 35-42].

At the Council meeting, Geoff Meggs displayed obvious frustration as he went into a routine about intentions are good, vague and sweeping language does not matter, Council should be trusted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The City Manager gets anointed at 4.1 &#8211; 4D [p. 28]. The Mayor gets anointed at 7.1 &#8211; 19A [p. 29]. The City Engineer gets multiple anointings at 10 &#8211; 104(1)(q) &#8230; 10 &#8211; 104(14)(e) [p. 35-42].</p>
<p>At the Council meeting, Geoff Meggs displayed obvious frustration as he went into a routine about intentions are good, vague and sweeping language does not matter, Council should be trusted.</p>
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		<title>By: gmgw</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/the-debate-over-vancouvers-2010-bylaws/comment-page-1/#comment-13817</link>
		<dc:creator>gmgw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 07:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=1825#comment-13817</guid>
		<description>Just had a more careful look at Meggs&#039; note to Michael Healey, which Frances printed at the head of this thread, and noticed that it&#039;s pretty much a rough draft for his Sun article (which is a more fully developed version of the same argument). Just thought I&#039;d save anyone the trouble of pointing this out. 
gmgw</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just had a more careful look at Meggs&#8217; note to Michael Healey, which Frances printed at the head of this thread, and noticed that it&#8217;s pretty much a rough draft for his Sun article (which is a more fully developed version of the same argument). Just thought I&#8217;d save anyone the trouble of pointing this out.<br />
gmgw</p>
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		<title>By: gmgw</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/the-debate-over-vancouvers-2010-bylaws/comment-page-1/#comment-13816</link>
		<dc:creator>gmgw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 07:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=1825#comment-13816</guid>
		<description>spartikus, 

I think that if you take the time to read Geoff Meggs&#039; apologia for the city&#039;s action(s) on page C5 of Saturday&#039;s Sun-- which includes an egregious attack on the BC Civil Liberties Association as well as nauseatingly self-congratulatory assurances that Council has acted in the interest of the Greater Good in moving to protect those of us too stupid to realize that Osama might be lurking beneath our very beds--  you might find your outrage meter registering a pretty good jolt.

This is all starting to remind me of Pierre Trudeau&#039;s complaint, made after he invoked the War Measures Act, about &quot;weak-kneed people who don&#039;t like the look of an army&quot;. The mixing of liberalism and testosterone can yield bizarre results. 
gmgw</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>spartikus, </p>
<p>I think that if you take the time to read Geoff Meggs&#8217; apologia for the city&#8217;s action(s) on page C5 of Saturday&#8217;s Sun&#8211; which includes an egregious attack on the BC Civil Liberties Association as well as nauseatingly self-congratulatory assurances that Council has acted in the interest of the Greater Good in moving to protect those of us too stupid to realize that Osama might be lurking beneath our very beds&#8211;  you might find your outrage meter registering a pretty good jolt.</p>
<p>This is all starting to remind me of Pierre Trudeau&#8217;s complaint, made after he invoked the War Measures Act, about &#8220;weak-kneed people who don&#8217;t like the look of an army&#8221;. The mixing of liberalism and testosterone can yield bizarre results.<br />
gmgw</p>
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		<title>By: spartikus</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/the-debate-over-vancouvers-2010-bylaws/comment-page-1/#comment-13815</link>
		<dc:creator>spartikus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 01:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=1825#comment-13815</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Spartikus at no. 26 takes note of Queen Penny’s power of decree (but fails to see that City Manager with Mayor and City Engineer form a triumvirate).&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m not sure I understand the comment. Do you mean for the Olympics, or in general? If the latter, I would agree the way the government of the City of Vancouver is set up is undemocratic. I think many would agree with that, on both the left and right.

Quite frankly, I&#039;m not sure where my outrage meter should be dialed to in regards to the City Manager&#039;s new Olympic powers. It would be nice to know what happened in other Olympics cities, for context. At this point it strikes me as pure CYA: the CoV will be defacto shut down for 2 weeks and they need to have some sort of mechanism in place to quickly deal with the unexpected.

That said, there is the possibility this could be abused and might be used to ram through an &quot;agenda&quot;. 

At this point nobody has done anything, so I will just register my unease.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Spartikus at no. 26 takes note of Queen Penny’s power of decree (but fails to see that City Manager with Mayor and City Engineer form a triumvirate).</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I understand the comment. Do you mean for the Olympics, or in general? If the latter, I would agree the way the government of the City of Vancouver is set up is undemocratic. I think many would agree with that, on both the left and right.</p>
<p>Quite frankly, I&#8217;m not sure where my outrage meter should be dialed to in regards to the City Manager&#8217;s new Olympic powers. It would be nice to know what happened in other Olympics cities, for context. At this point it strikes me as pure CYA: the CoV will be defacto shut down for 2 weeks and they need to have some sort of mechanism in place to quickly deal with the unexpected.</p>
<p>That said, there is the possibility this could be abused and might be used to ram through an &#8220;agenda&#8221;. </p>
<p>At this point nobody has done anything, so I will just register my unease.</p>
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		<title>By: SV</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/the-debate-over-vancouvers-2010-bylaws/comment-page-1/#comment-13813</link>
		<dc:creator>SV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 20:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=1825#comment-13813</guid>
		<description>I think it says something about making lemonade from lemons. The thread was jacked from the get go and it quickly became apparent that there was a major obstacle to getting it back on track. And since the  laughs just kept on coming some of us just rolled with it. 
I was hoping to discuss the issues of the 2010 bylaws but I figure it&#039;s such an important issue that we&#039;ll have another chance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it says something about making lemonade from lemons. The thread was jacked from the get go and it quickly became apparent that there was a major obstacle to getting it back on track. And since the  laughs just kept on coming some of us just rolled with it.<br />
I was hoping to discuss the issues of the 2010 bylaws but I figure it&#8217;s such an important issue that we&#8217;ll have another chance.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/the-debate-over-vancouvers-2010-bylaws/comment-page-1/#comment-13812</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 16:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=1825#comment-13812</guid>
		<description>What does it say that only 2 out of 38 postings contribute much to the stated topic of &lt;b&gt;Vancouver&#039;s 2010 Bylaws&lt;/b&gt;?

Spartikus at no. 26 takes note of Queen Penny&#039;s power of decree (but fails to see that City Manager with Mayor and City Engineer form a triumvirate).

Peter G at no. 28 spots the City Manager&#039;s brief comment itself as lacking the &quot;fair and reasonable balance&quot; that the recommendation preceding the bylaw proclaims.

The biggest unreported gem is that City Council passed the bylaw without having consulted its own ballyhooed Civil Liberties Advisory Committee. That committee gets to review the bylaw after the fact!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What does it say that only 2 out of 38 postings contribute much to the stated topic of <b>Vancouver&#8217;s 2010 Bylaws</b>?</p>
<p>Spartikus at no. 26 takes note of Queen Penny&#8217;s power of decree (but fails to see that City Manager with Mayor and City Engineer form a triumvirate).</p>
<p>Peter G at no. 28 spots the City Manager&#8217;s brief comment itself as lacking the &#8220;fair and reasonable balance&#8221; that the recommendation preceding the bylaw proclaims.</p>
<p>The biggest unreported gem is that City Council passed the bylaw without having consulted its own ballyhooed Civil Liberties Advisory Committee. That committee gets to review the bylaw after the fact!</p>
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		<title>By: SV</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/the-debate-over-vancouvers-2010-bylaws/comment-page-1/#comment-13809</link>
		<dc:creator>SV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 04:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=1825#comment-13809</guid>
		<description>gmgw- oh I&#039;m all too familiar with post # 25.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gmgw- oh I&#8217;m all too familiar with post # 25.</p>
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		<title>By: Frances Bula</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/the-debate-over-vancouvers-2010-bylaws/comment-page-1/#comment-13807</link>
		<dc:creator>Frances Bula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 03:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=1825#comment-13807</guid>
		<description>Omigosh, Just read post #25 again. I must have blanked it out -- some kind of post-traumatic effect. Yikes. And who ever said planning was boring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Omigosh, Just read post #25 again. I must have blanked it out &#8212; some kind of post-traumatic effect. Yikes. And who ever said planning was boring.</p>
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