I will leave the commenting to others on this one.
This just out:
(Vancouver) – Vision Vancouver Councillor Andrea Reimer will introduce a motion at the next City Council meeting to create an Engaged City Mayor’s Task Force, which will identify ways to increase neighbourhood engagement and improve the ways in which the City interacts and connects with its residents, as well as meet a key election campaign commitment.
“We’ve seen from both the Vancouver Foundation’s research on social isolation and the success of last week’s SFU Community Summit that there is a big appetite for people to be better connected, whether it’s on an individual level with their neighbours or how they engage with City Hall,” said Councillor Reimer. “Vancouver is a city that leads the world in many ways, and we can do more when it comes to building a more engaged city.”
The Mayor’s Task Force would be comprised of people with particular experience in citizen engagement and community building. Members will be chosen from an open call for applications, with the goal to have the Task Force up and running by December, and to complete its work by next June. The creation of a task force to improve citizen engagement was a campaign commitment made by Vision Vancouver in the 2011 civic election.
The Engaged City Task Force will focus on the following areas:
- increasing neighbour-to-neighbour engagement and cultural interconnectedness
- increasing literacy on, and engagement with, municipal government processes and budgeting
- identifing ways to enhance how the city engages with citizens, and vice versa
92 responses so far ↓
1 boohoo // Sep 24, 2012 at 10:09 am
Sounds reasonable, was a campaign promise, so sure.
I guess the questions are in the details of which there are none. To be forthcoming I would imagine…
2 Raingurl // Sep 24, 2012 at 10:56 am
I’m curious to see how well the city interacts with the DTES.
3 gman // Sep 24, 2012 at 1:26 pm
I hate to get the tinfoil out again but these ideas all come from somewhere.
”Each local authority should enter into a dialogue with its citizens, local organizations, and private enterprises to formulate ‘a Local Agenda 21.’ Through consultation and consensus-building, local authorities would learn from citizens and from local, civic, community, business and industrial organizations and acquire the information needed for formulating the best strategies.” – Agenda 21, Chapter 28, sec 1.3
People may think this a good thing and on the surface it is,but we must be aware of how its managed and where it comes from.
4 gman // Sep 24, 2012 at 1:53 pm
And this is from the wiki page,the last paragraph is a little telling.I am in no way against grass roots community groups as that is what we as communities draw our strength from.But I am suspicious of a government organizing these groups.
Local Agenda 21
See also: International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives
The implementation of Agenda 21 was intended to involve action at international, national, regional and local levels. Some national and state governments have legislated or advised that local authorities take steps to implement the plan locally, as recommended in Chapter 28 of the document. These programs are often known as “Local Agenda 21″ or “LA21″.[2] For example, in the Philippines, the plan is “Philippines Agenda 21″ (PA21). The group, ICLEI-Local Governments for Sustainability, formed in 1990; today its members come from 1,200 cities, towns, and counties in 70 countries and is widely regarded as a paragon of Agenda 21 implementation.[3]
In other countries, opposition to Agenda 21′s ideas has surfaced to varied extents. In some cases, opposition has been legislated into several States limiting or forbidding the participation and/or funding of local government activities that support Agenda 21.[4]
5 yeah...riiiiight // Sep 24, 2012 at 2:42 pm
These are the same louts who killed community planning, continue to enrage and exclude neighbourhood organisations, and simply never listen to neighbourhood concerns or requests–even when there is no financial ask at all!
If you really don’t want to do anything, appoint a “Task Force.” Here’s the proof. More proof will come when such a “Task Force” is chosen.
6 Glissando Remmy // Sep 24, 2012 at 4:13 pm
Thought of The Day
“Steal a generation of children and indoctrinate them so they accept these ideas, so they become global citizens in the coming global village.”
gman #3 #4
Yeah.
I got that feeling too.
Though, what’s interesting, is that most of these “promoters of Agenda 21 idiocies” are in fact land owners in parts of the world they shouldn’t be, having second and third residences on faraway, usually uninhabitable islands, and themselves living a life so far removed from the sustainability mantra they preach and try to implement on others, that’s mind boggling.
Look up the Agenda 21 for Dummies, though…
“More education increases the threat to sustainability” so for those of you not interested in learning, don’t read or watch more on the subject. You’ll be fine.
After months of fruitless meetings and empty calories reports Da Mayor’s Task Force on Housing Affordability solved… NOTHING!
Based on that superb feedback and flying high the successes of its First Phase, they want now to implement a Second Task Force (translation: many more intricate ways of control through more bureaucracy – new job titles for friends/believers…)
Once during my research for a story, I attended a lecture with a big shot power motivator. Not long into the session he said to us: “Now say hello and give a hug to the people sitting to your left and to your right and introduce yourselves.
Your name and what do you do for a living.”
My favorite!
To the lady to my left, hugging her, I said: “Heeere’s Johnny! I’m a writer with a momentarily writer’s block. Do you want to go, and live with me in a secluded Overlook hotel?”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=mFigicgRHx8&NR=1
To the gent to my right I said “I’m Paolo. Photographer. I like your shirt. Is it silk? You should be in the movies! Your skin is so delicate. What are you doing tonight?”
I know, with so much neighborliness you’d probably fell inspired too!
Anyhoo…
I have a new name for this new initiative… “Kibbutz Living 21st!”
(I know , it sounds a little like your next “Living Furniture EXPO” Ad, but still, I don’t think I’m too far off…
Vision Vancouver.
Your money.
Their back pockets.
At work.
Sustainscarebility!
We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.
7 Agustin // Sep 24, 2012 at 4:44 pm
gman, “People may think this a good thing and on the surface it is,but we must be aware of how its managed and where it comes from.”
I don’t get what you are saying. What’s the link to Agenda 21 here, and what is the potential problem?
8 gman // Sep 24, 2012 at 5:34 pm
Agustin#6
Its the United Nations agenda for the 21st century.It came about at the 1992 Rio Earth Summit that was chaired by Maurice (oil for food)Strong.But I believe it started much earlier at aUN meeting in Vancouver back in I think 1976 where they wrote the Vancouver Declaration on Human Settlements. They will control every aspect of our live through more and more laws and restrictions.I would suggest you go to this site and spend some time there because this is a very serious thing that most people are completely unaware of.And after you spend some time ask yourself how many of these things stand true for Vancouver.
http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/index.html
9 gman // Sep 24, 2012 at 5:42 pm
Glissy#5
There is some hope now as more states and cities wake up and have passed laws against it.At the bottom of this link are more similar stories.The list of refuseniks seems to be growing.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/11592-alabama-adopts-first-official-state-ban-on-un-agenda-21
And I hope people understand that these are by-partisan efforts fighting together against Agenda 21 and ICLEI .
10 waltyss // Sep 24, 2012 at 11:03 pm
Yes, Moira and I have always considered Alabama to be at the forefront of all {let’s see, can’t say progressive, because that is bad. Oh I know…] foreward thinking policies.
But can someone please do something about those aliens screaming in my ear. They keep screaming Agenda 21. Glissy, I can’t write doggerel to drown them out . What should I do? AAAAAAAAGHHHHH!!!!!!! Help me! Help Me!1
11 gman // Sep 25, 2012 at 1:21 am
Waltyss
I wonder do you hate all the people on this list as much as you hate people from Alabama?
http://www.varight.com/news/the-wall-of-honor-lets-fill-it-with-communities-that-have-said-no-to-iclei/
Thanks for your well reasoned response and am looking forward to your input.
12 Agustin // Sep 25, 2012 at 8:20 am
gman, my first glance at that web site makes me think it’s the rantings of conspiracy theorists. And I don’t really have two hours to spare to confirm or refute my first impressions.
What, exactly, is the connection between the City’s actions here and Agenda 21? And what is the problem you see?
13 boohoo // Sep 25, 2012 at 8:33 am
Seems to me the connection can be made to almost anything. Agenda 21 has such broad sweeping statements, you could say it influences every and any decision politicians make.
And so, ok, do we stop making decisions because the UN thinks we should make them? I don’t get the ‘conspiracy’.
And regardless, is the City’s initiative a bad one? Who cares who came up with the idea?
14 Andrew Browne // Sep 25, 2012 at 9:42 am
In gman’s world if neighbours speak to each other and form bonds of community it must be because they are talking about Agenda 21, apparently? Just bizarre. Agenda 21 hysteria is the stuff of Alabama and Texas. Did you spend some time down there or on a bunch of US forums, because I can’t imagine why else this inanity is leaking north of the border.
We’ve had a very consistent trickle of articles, surveys, op-eds, letters, and general sentiment that residents in Greater Vancouver are struggling to adapt familiar feelings of engagement and community with the modern reality of their neighbourhoods (multi-ethnic, multi-language, busy lives, and habitual Canadianism e.g. “oh, I don’t want to bother them”). It’s a tough nut to crack and I wonder what the task force can really do, but willing to follow along and see.
15 IanS // Sep 25, 2012 at 1:31 pm
All that Agenda 21 stuff makes me want to crawl into my bunker and don my tin foil hat.
As for the task force, I don’t see that it’ll do much good. But, OTOH, I doubt it’ll do much harm either. I’ll take that as a win.
16 rf // Sep 25, 2012 at 3:31 pm
The Engaged City Taskforce will spend $500,000 to get a bunch of English speaking people to sit around and talk about *stuff*.
The Engaged City Taskforce will not set foot west of Arbutus
The Engaged City Taskforce will be yet another venue for the squeekiest of wheels
What a bunch of beauracratic hooey
The Engaged City Taskforce is supposed to be City Council. They’re elected to go out and gather the voice of the city.
Fast forward 1 year
The Engaged City Taskforce wants to endorse Internet and Textfree zones where people may only communicate verbally. City funded sign language representatives will be on hand to translate for the hearing impaired. Please do not use cars to get the the ITfree zones.
Did any of these people watch Seinfeld?!!! This taskforce is one step away from the “Everyone wear name tags” initiative!
17 brilliant // Sep 25, 2012 at 5:36 pm
What a laugh! Vision Vancouvet seeking to “improve” the way they interact with residents? Maybe they envision muzzles to stop residents from expressing their opinion when a patented VV neighbourhood-buster tower is dropped on them. Of course there’s nowhere to go but up from “who are these f@#%ing hacks”.
18 boohoo // Sep 25, 2012 at 6:06 pm
Good job again, thread down the drain. Can we stop this?
19 Ned Jacobs // Sep 25, 2012 at 6:56 pm
One thing the City could do is restore the communications and outreach funding for the volunteer (CityPlan) Community Vision Implementation Committees. These budgets, capped at $10,000 per year, helped engage residents in numerous aspects of community life. For example, the RileyPark/South Cambie committee, which has managed to carry on despite the cuts (with assistance from Vancity), hosts a website http://rpscvisions.ca/; engages in planning processes (e.g. Little Mountain, Cambie Corridor, #3333 Main); initiates traffic calming (e.g. Oak and 16th); supports greening (e.g. the exceptional Seed to Sky Garden Club); helps support arts and culture (e.g. The Drift); and interlaces with other community groups (e.g. Little Mountain Neighbourhood House, Hillcrest Community Association). Restoring the budgets would allow us (and the other CityPlan Committees) to involve more residents and expand our activities.
The Council-approved budgets were eliminated by Community Services in the winter of 2010 the same week that they allocated $32,000 for a self-congratulatory post-Olympics party for City staff. It appears to many of us that the Vision Implementation Committee funding was cut because the committees, which have a “public watchdog” role under the CityPlan Terms of Reference, sometimes raise objections about how the City conducts public consultations, or adopt positions on development proposals that are at variance with the CoV administration.
20 gman // Sep 25, 2012 at 9:18 pm
Seems Ive created a real hubbub,funny what gets people so upset.
21 gman // Sep 25, 2012 at 10:50 pm
Agustin#11
Fair question and I understand your first impression its not unusual.So lets look at how the city might get the ball rolling.First they need a contact in the neighborhood to help get things organized so they may look in their address book for some people who live there,these people could be Vision members they could belong to an NGO or even members of ICLEI and thats understandable.But whats important is that their onboard with the cities agenda,and that is also understandable.Now they send out flyers or whatever to generate some public intrest and set up a meeting.People show up and someone has to chair the meeting take minutes and all the other things required that the average person isnt interested in doing.Now the ringers who some might call change agents are more than likely type A personalities and will step up volunteer to do these tasks.Now say the city has a new proposal lets say to recycle cat poop.Well the ringer could suggest that they could put together a few questions for the next meeting to get a feel for the peoples opinion on this subject and arrive at some kind of consensus on this pressing subject,everyone cheers and feel like their really a part of something.So you show up at the next meeting ready to get er done.Now the first question could be something like.
“What color box would you like to put your cat poop in”
a)Blue
b)green
c)brown
Now this bothers you a little so you ask “Dont you think we should have another choice like d)none of the above.
Big mistake,all of a sudden the ringer will point you out and say “WHAT YOU DONT LIKE TO RECYCLE” You can feel the eyes burning through you and the crowd begins to mutter.So you again try to state your case and the ringer says “Look,I worked really hard on this on my own time and we only have a certain amount of time to do this,everyone here has a life you know” You try again and now the crowd starts to turn on you the anti-recycler and the ringer says “If you dont like the question you have the option not to vote.The vote takes place and its announced that “The vote is in we all decided we are for the cat poop motion” Baddabing badda boom we have a consensus. But you have been presented a false choice.This is a technique that is used more than people might think to manufacture a consensus,its a version of the Delphi Technique.Now it could be someone from city hall that comes out to do this and they bring the questions.
Now what could this have to do with A21?
Its common knowledge that A21 is real and that they are a multi-billion dollar operation.They hold meetings in exotic places and make plans for every aspect of life on the planet,they have turnouts of some 25000 people and at the last one in Rio I think there were over 3000 NGOs lined up at the trough.At the same time this took place ICLEI had their big meeting at another city not far away.
Its also common knowledge that the UN has given ICLEI the mandate implement this 300 page 40 chapter manual on how we citizens of the world will live.
Vancouver has been deeply involved with ICLEI since the beginning, all you have to do is Google ICLEI Cadman,he has been the big cheese there for a very long time.And if you look at all these initiatives that are put forth by the city many many of them were given to the city by ICLEI all you have to do is look.There are some planning books at the site I linked to and these same books are in every planning office in every members city hall around the world,It doesnt matter if its Hanoi or Hamilton they are the same books only the names have changed.
As far as the site I linked to you should read the Bio of its proprietor she is far from some conspiracy wack job.Of the over 138 members in the US that have quit ICLEI I linked to Alabama I could have just as easily linked to a small town in California,so I guess I was baiting just a little but I wasnt surprised at the result.
So I guess my position is that these are facts you can take any way you want,but to flat out call them lies or a conspiracy only means that your operating without all the facts.And I believe as a Canadian we are very capable on makeing our own decisions on what is best for us and we dont need the UN or ICLEI to push this on us with a bunch of false choices and coercion.
22 Glissando Remmy // Sep 25, 2012 at 10:57 pm
Thought of The Night
“What we have here Ladies and Gentlemen, is a Comedy Of Errors, or what some would call… Doggerel Shmoggerel… ”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWXB2_n3qzU
“O villain! thou hast stolen
Both mine office and my name.
The one ne’er got me credit,
The other mickle blame.
If thou hadst been Dromio
To-day in my place,
Thou wouldst have changed
Thy face for a name
or thy name for an ass. ”
Gman, it’s not thou faultis,
Damn hard to taketh a pass,
To such a pitiful amiss,
Thy courtesan Waltyss!
We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.
23 waltyss // Sep 25, 2012 at 11:01 pm
@gman 10 and 18.
I don’t hate people in Alabama or on this post. I do think the people in Alabama are backward and I also think that some of the people on this thread are, well, nuts. Doesn’t mean I hate them.
The link you referred people to at #7 is to some crazy lady (Rosa Foire) from northern California (aren’t they all) who is upset because some planning ordinance is not allowing her to build on her property the way she wants to and the UN is forcing Americans to use fewer resources and this is bad. So fight against anything that may restrict your freedom.
Lunatic conspiracy theory.
Kris Kristofferson probably said it best when he said that freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose. A hobo is free.
When we live in community, we surrender various freedoms in order to be able to live together in relative harmony. In Vancouver for example, we surrender the right to cut down any trees on our property whenever we choose. Or we live in strata units and may even surrender the right to choose the colour of our curtains. In doing so, we trade off various curbs on our freedoms to be able to live together in relatively civilized communities and in order to be free to go about our business.
Do we get the balance right every time? We should be vigilant that governments don’t overstep their bounds.
And finally, we do make our own decisions. People are each informed by various things, some by ICLEI, some by a crazy lady in Northern California, some by comic books. And from those various threads we fashion, if not consensus, something we live with until it gets to the point that we need a change. It’s called democracy.
I realize that even to begin debating with you is like playing whack a mole. The most obvious falsehood is that the UN or ICLEI is or can force us to do anything. The don’t and they can’t.
As for the rest, gman, I hate to tell you but it is good old fashioned nutzoid conspiracy theory.
24 Glissando Remmy // Sep 25, 2012 at 11:56 pm
Thought of The Night
“FACT – something that actually exists; something known to exist or to have happened:
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something said to be true or supposed to have happened”
Gman #19, don’t bother throwing FACTS at people who don’t want and can’t handle them!
FWIW, Right On!
That, I tell you… would be a delightful read for the Vision Vancouver apparatchik.
Hard to digest.
FACTS:
You are right about Cadman.
You are right about ICLEI and Vancouver’s role.
You are right when you say that Vision ideas come from somewhere.
You are right about the Delphi Technique.
You are right about Agenda 21.
I only want to add a little extra to your example, of course, assuming the risk of being called an old fashioned nutzoid conspiracy theorist… again.
I am not sure if you are aware or not, I also don’t know if you were, in the past, privy or not to this kind of meetings … but your description of the said meeting (only funnier) is a carbon copy to any of the average former Socialist/ Communist Party regular review meetings.
Reversed psychology techniques used in combination with intimidation, group shaming was the MO of most Party Secretaries, most of them Ideologues to the bone, nothing more. Advancing their agenda, questioning rational thinking and coming down hard on dissenters.
When the Wall came down in 1989… surprise, surprise, I was there doing research for BBC International, and documenting every aspect of it, something I cannot say about many of the Vision Villagers on this blog.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/news/2009/11/091109_berlin_20yearson_ap.shtml
“Sometimes people don’t want to hear the truth because they don’t want their illusions destroyed.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.
25 ThinkOutsideABox // Sep 26, 2012 at 2:13 am
I do think the people in Alabama are backward…
Mighty provincial of you with that bigoted generalization. Any other southern states you’d like to slag wholesale?
Gman #19: so you’ve attended and observed some of the West End Mayor’s Advisory Committee meetings I see.
26 Agustin // Sep 26, 2012 at 8:35 am
@gman, thank you for the thorough response.
I admit it seems like a bit too much conjecture to me, but I do appreciate knowing where you are coming from.
27 Joe Just Joe // Sep 26, 2012 at 9:14 am
I voted for c) the brown box. I can’t remember why but that’s the one the speaker kept pointing to. I also second the idea of everyone wearing name tags, we know it worked out well for the Safeway cashiers.
28 brilliant // Sep 26, 2012 at 10:40 am
@boohoo 17-Are you implying that Visions past behaviour isn’t applicable to this discussion? Is only Gregor hagiography allowed now?
29 boohoo // Sep 26, 2012 at 10:45 am
brilliant,
I know you’re just being stupid, I won’t even bother answering.
Keep the discussion on topic, or don’t say anything.
30 waltyss // Sep 26, 2012 at 12:17 pm
It was to be expected that Glissy the hasheater would add to gman’s looney conspiracy theories by throwing in the favourite canard of the loopy right: that anyone centre left is a commie.
Poor Vancouverites. Brainwashed by the commissars so easily. gman asked why I hate the people of Alabama so much. I might ask him (and his fellow conspiracy theorist, commie sleuth why they hate the residents of Vancouver so much?
And to answer ThinkOutside, I would add Mississippi to that mix: America’s poorest states that are still drinking the Repug, Romney koolaid even as he shows contempt for them as part of the 47%.
And no, not everyone in those states falls into that category but clearly a majority do.
31 gman // Sep 26, 2012 at 12:50 pm
Agustin#24
No,thank you for at least taking a look and as time goes on it may just become a lot more obvious to you. If anything can be gained from this conversation it will be that at the next meeting even the mudslingers might recognize whats happening. As for me I’m getting used to being treated like the witch LOL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sglyFwTjfDU
32 brilliant // Sep 26, 2012 at 12:53 pm
@boohoo 27-so you think the mayor cursing out citizens, or Vision ignoring neighbourhood wishes in Mt Pleasant, Shannon Mews etc. Isn’t applicable to a post about how the city engages residents.?
Now who’s being stupid…
33 Boohoo // Sep 26, 2012 at 1:17 pm
What I know is you continue to make wild assumptions about what you think I mean. Either ask me, or stop assuming.
This proposal is a campaign promise and despite your trying to link it to some shady, international plot, it’s pretty benign.
And even if we think about what he said in the past, isn’t this a good thing? The city reaching out, trying to do it different etc…. Maybe it is just lip service, and like I said there are no details. But your immediate rush to dismissal, distrust and mockery is silly.
34 Boohoo // Sep 26, 2012 at 1:20 pm
I meant to add….that like I asked in a previous poat–who cares why they are doing it, is it a bad idea? Probably not short of the details. So how can we make it work? It’s very easy to shoot down ideas, how about we build on them to make them better.
35 gman // Sep 26, 2012 at 3:34 pm
I think some people should look at how Alabama has voted thru history before they beak off.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_Alabama
36 gman // Sep 26, 2012 at 3:43 pm
They might want to look at Mississippi and their voting history also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_Mississippi
37 waltyss // Sep 26, 2012 at 3:54 pm
@gman, your point is what. Both Alabama and Mississippi are solidly in the Repug column. Were they Democratic at one time. Yes, but Democratic in the sense the George Wallace or his wife Lurleen were Democrats.
There is little or no day light between the racist segregationist intolerant Democrats of the Wallace era and the Repugs of today. Well, maybe they don’t refer to “nigras” anymore but the sentiment remains.
38 brilliant // Sep 26, 2012 at 4:01 pm
@boohoo, no its not a bad idea, if they are seriously prepared to listen.
39 Glissando Remmy // Sep 26, 2012 at 5:02 pm
Thought of The Day
“Vancouver City Hall Amber Alert: Kidnapped… 4 Years Old Boy, goes by the name of ‘Priorities List’, last seen wondering outside of 12th & Cambie St., cca. Nov. 2008. REWARD offered for any information leading to the kidnappers’ capture and to the safety return of the little one.”
Yes, people. That’s the Magic Word missing from all Vision Vancouver’s activity of the past four years.
PRIORITIES!
Vision PRIORITIES did not even once overlap with the City’s NEEDS.
It was ALL… a Vision Agenda, whatever their preferred number … 3, 15 or 21.
As much as I’d like to trust this bunch of clowns, I simply can’t. That would be like trying to persuade myself into believing that Anna Nicole Smith married for love!
Forget about the ‘f#^&%*ing hacks’ the ‘democracy cubed’ the ‘RIZE’s futile public consultation/session’ or the ‘consultation was the election’.
Forget all that…, naah, I’ve tried, really, but… NOT!
What about now?
Trust them on this new “collectivist culture” approach. Ay Caramba!
Think about this:
After a full session last week, spent on the subject of … Banning the Shark Fin Soup from Vancouver restaurants… an issue they have no control over what-so-ever… so, they spent time and taxpayers money, your money, with no debate, on a subject with no merit, an issue that was brought on by none other than the only Councillor who served it as a Traditional Soup at his own wedding… Cllor “How would that make you feel?”
And nobody called them on their BS!?
Basically, what they want is, to Establish Control over what people can or can not eat in this city, alienating a certain group of people, mostly of Chinese descent, entering a jurisdiction they did not exercise in the past, not to say that without a Province wide/ Canada wide ban the whole thing is nothing but an exercise in futility.
They self appointed themselves as the Food City Police same way they appointed themselves Bike City Police in the past… everything Police.
The BEST case scenario, if banned, being that they single-handedly created a new black market for said product, in the city of Vancouver. Just stupid. There, I said it. This should stop , this is what’s wrong with this council… they have NO priorities, as they have NO Vision!
Vision Vancouver specialty!
Maybe it’s about time for this Mayor and his Vision Council to start doing their job, the job they’ve been hired to do, which is to administer the city.
Hey, in comparison, this guy looks tenfold trustworthy to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiIP_KDQmXs
Hard to trust this bunch with anything, eh?
We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.
40 boohoo // Sep 26, 2012 at 5:36 pm
Oh god, Vision is sooo horrible. I can’t believe they single-handedly just created this black market with this move. I mean my god this is just preposterous no one in their right mind would make this kind of idiotic move.
Not Nanaimo (hmm, they did!)
Not Coquitlam (…they did)
Not Maple Ridge (weird, they did too)
Not Calgary. (oops they did)
Not Toronto (I’m sensing a trend here…)
Not Washington, Oregon and California (well, strange they did)
Not China. (yep they did at state functions)
Yeah, these guys are just the worst!
41 waltyss // Sep 26, 2012 at 5:37 pm
Glissy, my dear hasheating friend. You forgot just one thing (well, you also forgot humour but you usually do) as you went off on your tangent.
That the ban on shark fin soup must be a Delphi technique on the Agenda 21 list mandated by ICLEI and, of course, fueled by commie cells. But that probably goes without saying. the Chinese are commies and they eat shark fin soup so there is your connection. QED..
42 Rf // Sep 26, 2012 at 6:16 pm
Ummmmm…. Jim Green was from Alabama…..
43 Ned // Sep 26, 2012 at 7:15 pm
Boohoo and Waltyss…
Boy, you two complete each others sentences better than in a Abbot and Costello sketch.
FWIW, you both wouldn’t gather enough wit and clout to shoeshine Glissando’s left shoe!
But that’s for another post.
BTW, your shoes, what are they made of? Leather?
How horrible. Let’s ban that!
What did you two BBQed over the weekend you hypocrites? Vegetarian patties? Then you washed them down with soy milk and lemonade?
let me guess. Yop both recycle vigorously, yet you live … in a detached 3000 sqft house on the vancouver’s west side. The progressive side.
You compost, food scrap, yet now and then take a trip to Europe or Hawaii by plane, those horrible flying machines.
Let’s ban those. Bad for the environment.
IN fact let’s ban everything that comes into your cross hairs , how about let’s ban all kinds of food.
Have you ever seen how a cow is slaughtered?
http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3D_ZJg_z4BLy8
To me is the same thing… someone cuts their throat than lets the animal bleed to death… just like they say it happens to sharks.
Bad all around.
Now.
I saw a couple of coyotes in my neighborhood, and to me they looked mean and threatening, what do you saying boohoo and waltyss… shall we?
What I’m saying is, and here’s where I agree with Glissando’s last paragraph #37 , WTF are the city of Vancouver councilors and the mayor doing, on taxpayers money and time, not minding their real business? Eh?
44 boohoo // Sep 26, 2012 at 7:28 pm
Ned,
The number of wild, inaccurate, ignorant assumptions in your post is staggering. Kudos.
Do you think the task force is a good idea or not?
45 waltyss // Sep 26, 2012 at 7:42 pm
Well, Ned, if boohoo and I complete each others (sic)sentences better than in a (sic) Abbot (sic) and Costello movie, at least we are amusing and we aren’t each others groupies (neither of which can be said for you and our resident doggerelist).
Thank you for telling me what I think or do or say. Some of it you got right, much you didn’t.
So you oppose the ban on shark fin soup and you are entitled to the view. It’s not the same as the kosher slaughter of a cow for the very simple reason that all or most of the cow is used while with shark fin soup, they cut off the fin and throw the shark back in the water to die. For what?
You and the doggerelist are free to believe in whatever you want. The doggerelist, together with gman, believes in conspiracy theories and that anyone who doesn’t veer to the far right is a commie or at least a commie dupe.
Is that your view too, Ned?
And, Ned, I sense a note of envy about me and my west side house (you got the area wrong, but never mind). Envy is so unbecoming, Ned.
Really.
I too agree with the doggerelist when he says that it is time for the city council to deal with administering the city. I think they are and overall they are doing a reasonable job. My garbage is picked up, my streets are paved, my community centre is in good repair, bike lanes have been an overall sucess except with the usual suspects, my street lights work. The admisistration is attempting to tackle issues of housing affordability and homelessness. Should the province be doing it? yes, but they are not and someone should. I would like my children to be able to live in this city at a price they can afford.
Are they perfect. No, they are not. Far from it but I would give them a B from where I sit.
And you know what. I think if an election were called today, they would still win in a walk.
And you know what I really like about that. That in your heart of hearts you know that and it really pisses you off: you, and the doggerelist and gman and the other NPA lovin’ City Caucus exiles.
Have a great day, Ned.
46 waltyss // Sep 26, 2012 at 7:51 pm
oh, the task force. Excuse me, Ned. It was a campaign promise and I believe parties should keep campaign promises. It cannot do any harm. I am not wildly ecstatic about it. But why not?
And Glissy, my hasheating friend, I support the ban on shark fin soup because I don’t think that we should kill wild animals, not for food, but because of some superstition that tells us we will be lucky in life or something if we eat one small part of the animal while we discard the rest. And once Richmond and Burnaby come on board it will be a done deal. Doesn’t that make you excited, Ned and doggerelist (our own Abbott and Costello.
47 boohoo // Sep 26, 2012 at 8:13 pm
Waltyss, you’re basically just as bad. Not quite as many personal insults, but bad. Let’s shelve it and stick to the topic.
48 Glissando Remmy // Sep 26, 2012 at 10:41 pm
ROTFLMAO!
#41 Ned, Ned, you got it all wrong buddy!
We live in a cynical world…
Completing one another sentences, yes, but… like Tom and Renee:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpWAlvWNZj0
I wonder, who… had the other, at ‘Hello’ though…
GR-eetings
49 waltyss // Sep 26, 2012 at 11:44 pm
@boohoo. Does that mean we aren’t Abbot and Costello anymore?
50 Silly Season // Sep 27, 2012 at 12:10 am
@ Glissy @boohoo @Waltyss
For this thread, and some of the other comments I’ve read lately, I think this version more aptly represents some posters.
51 Nelson100 // Sep 27, 2012 at 8:27 am
I’m heartened to hear that we will be taught how to engage each other by the a city council that prides itself on ignoring its citizens and the democratic process.
52 boohoo // Sep 27, 2012 at 8:39 am
I’m pretty sure we never were anything but a boogeyman for a few here. Sorry to break it to you.
Nelson100,
It’s very easy to just dismiss and mock, but seeing as
“The Mayor’s Task Force would be comprised of people with particular experience in citizen engagement and community building. Members will be chosen from an open call for applications, with the goal to have the Task Force up and running by December, and to complete its work by next June.”
do you think it has any merit? Or are you just another in the list of people who will mock absolutely anything that comes out of City Hall?
53 gman // Sep 27, 2012 at 9:51 am
Or maybe the city had the bejeezes scared out of them by the Rize debacle where a grass roots community group got together and made them look pretty bad.They sure dont want that to happen again so they want to have someone in there to help guide the process.
54 IanS // Sep 27, 2012 at 10:22 am
@boohoo #50,
While I do not share Gman’s concerns regarding Agenda 21, your phrasing of this question:
“do you think it has any merit? Or are you just another in the list of people who will mock absolutely anything that comes out of City Hall?”
is eerily reminiscent of his “litter box” recycling example in #19.
Are those really the only options?
55 boohoo // Sep 27, 2012 at 10:28 am
IanS,
I’m not following what you mean. The only options for what?
56 IanS // Sep 27, 2012 at 10:34 am
Read your question. One either agrees that the idea has merit or one is another in the list of people who mock absolutely everything that comes out of City Hall.
I think that’s called a false dichotomy.
And, as I indicated, similar to the technique set out by gman in his post #19.
57 boohoo // Sep 27, 2012 at 10:46 am
I was being somewhat sarcastic as there are those here who’s initial reaction is derision regardless of the topic or its merit. It’s not either or, that’s not what I meant.
I was thinking of brilliant as I was writing, who’s initial reaction was ‘blah blah city hall bad’ but when asked point blank said it’s not a bad idea (assuming it’s legit which is very valid).
My question was just worded poorly–you could not have that vitriolic reaction to anything from city hall and still think this is a bad idea. Or think whatever else you want. As I’ve said a number of times, perspective is important and dramatically lacking.
58 gman // Sep 27, 2012 at 10:49 am
“The Mayor’s Task Force would be comprised of people with particular experience in citizen engagement and community building. ”
I wonder where a person would be trained for this particular purpose ?
59 gman // Sep 27, 2012 at 10:59 am
People might want to look at the last sentence in my first comment or this from my second comment.
” .I am in no way against grass roots community groups as that is what we as communities draw our strength from.But I am suspicious of a government organizing these groups. “
60 IanS // Sep 27, 2012 at 11:04 am
“perspective is important and dramatically lacking.”
Heh. I certainly agree with that.
61 gman // Sep 27, 2012 at 11:50 am
I would also invite people go back and read my previous comments.Nowhere will you find any name calling or derogatory comments all you will find is direct quotes and links to other member cities that for what ever reason have chosen to remove themselves from ICLEI.The other thing you will see is my attempt to answer questions that were posed to me in a civil manner.I leave it to the reader to decide if these things I say have any merit or not and if they dont they can move on.Instead Im confronted with name calling and hand waving in order to discredit even the thought that it could even be possible,and frankly its done with no evidence that it isnt happening.Im the first to admit its like trying to nail jello to a wall but I believe the weight of evidence falls on the side that there is some outside influence on the city.
62 gman // Sep 27, 2012 at 12:01 pm
I should also say that I have attempted to pose a scenario to show people how certain well documented techniques are used to manufacture consensus.
63 L Leeman // Sep 27, 2012 at 2:01 pm
I mean, ask yourself. How did it come about that SO MANY cities in North America are jamming bike lanes right through the middle of town. Did they ALL just happen to realize what a wondrous idea they are? Do they ALL suddenly have overwhelming traffic problems that MUST be solved NOW all at the same point in time?
Or.. could it just be… that the deep environmental left has given up trying to work through the Federal or even state/provincial level of government and found that it is very much easier to stack municipal councils ( as has been done in Vancouver ) and thereby move a lot faster on the Green script? Oh.. “what script?” you ask. Good, because it seemed awfully fishy to me that you could look at the website of any sizeable city in North America and find that, all in the last few years, they were full of ‘sustainable’ this and ‘sustainable that’ and bike lanes. For that, you probably need a script. That script is Agenda 21.
You can get trained on A21 at any of our universities now, our children of all ages are being indoctrinated in schools with it, it is never named explicitly, but it is there and at Vision Vancouver, it is their script.
That is why Andrea Reimer is striking a so called task force on lonliness and engagement. It isnt about lonliness but it IS about engaging people to join in implementing the A21 script. Normally, you would expect a political party to spend its own donations on membership drives and policy indoctrination of its members. This so called task force, appearing out of the blue, is nothing more than a way to get the taxpayers to fund their own indoctrination.
If you think Vision Vancouver is about anything else at all, then you are wrong. They are zealots, and Agenda 21 is their script.
64 Andy_F // Sep 27, 2012 at 2:37 pm
How did it come to be that Texas has dumbed down the US textbook market? It wasn’t the UN but conservative activists taking over school boards. Same basic idea as idea as this Agenda 21 boogyman which is that sustainable political movements start at a low local level and then spread out. All of the folks moaning that A21, taken the way it has been framed here, is some new level of “zealotry” or “regulation” are selective amnesiacs.
65 L Leeman // Sep 27, 2012 at 3:52 pm
Well Andy, here is an old quote from the Vancouver Observer where Olivia Fermi was interviewing Andrea Reimer.
====
“I asked Reimer how will her government’s Greenest City by 2020 promise be realized if Vision Vancouver were to be swept out of office.
Reimer asserted that the project would continue even without Vision Vancouver in power. “From the outset, we built it to last,” she said. “Greenest City is a like a tree with good, deep roots … at a political level, we’ve made sure it would be painful and hard to rip out. ”
====
Note the outlook choice of words.
‘Painful and hard to rip out’, (even if the democracy gives Andrea and her party a big thumbs down for what they have done). They really dont care and are PLANNING to be sure nobody in the future can undo what the ‘chosen’ have wrought.
If it quacks like a duck, it’s a zealot if you asked me.
66 gman // Sep 27, 2012 at 3:53 pm
Andy_F
I think your talking about two different things.If your concern is about the education system you may want to read Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt the former Senior Policy Adviser in the US Dept. of Education,The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America.A free download can be found here.
http://www.google.ca/webhp?hl=en#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=the+deliberate+dumbing+down+of+america&oq=the+deliberate&gs_l=hp.1.1.0l4.0.0.1.1376.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.les%3B..0.0…1c.7xtX75FXvIU&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=7dd5295f2d836305&biw=1366&bih=638
67 gman // Sep 27, 2012 at 3:55 pm
Sorry this is a better link http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/
68 Glissando Remmy // Sep 27, 2012 at 5:36 pm
Thought of The Day
“Zealot, all right!”
L. Leeman…
Welcome to the insanity!
People should read this:
“Reimer asserted that the project would continue even without Vision Vancouver in power. “From the outset, we built it to last,” she said. “Greenest City is a like a tree with good, deep roots … at a political level, we’ve made sure it would be painful and hard to rip out. ”
Then ask themselves… how could anyone trust these people again?
I think that who ever said she was a covert shrew, was wrong… she was never covert!
We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.
69 waltyss // Sep 27, 2012 at 6:50 pm
Ah, hasheater, welcome to the insanity indeed. Now it appears that there are three apostles of looney conspiracy theories.
Personally, I have always been a greater fan of the view that sustainability is the ideology of space aliens who landed in the New Mexico desert.
But then maybe those space aliens were caught up and brainwashed by A21, ICLEI and anyone who happens to be, dare I utter the obscenity, “progressive”. Yeah, that’s it.
I don’t know if Andrea Reimer is a shrew; she may be for all I know. I do know that the idiot who called her that is, well, an idiot.
70 gman // Sep 27, 2012 at 9:24 pm
Ya ya ya heres a few back at you Waltyss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSEYXWmEse8&feature=fvwrel
71 waltyss // Sep 27, 2012 at 10:54 pm
@gman,
do your lips get sore when you type. Is that why you need to regurgitate You tube videos to get out your insults.
Or is your “mind” so preoccupied with conspiracy theories and ICLEI that you just have no time to develop your own.
72 gman // Sep 27, 2012 at 11:32 pm
Waltyss,
No your just not worth my time.
73 gman // Sep 27, 2012 at 11:35 pm
And you have absolutely no sense of humour.
74 waltyss // Sep 28, 2012 at 12:03 am
@gman, it’s “you’re just not worth my time”. I’m starting to understand why you and the hasheater keep regurgitating youtube videos.
Good night, Mork my friend.
75 gman // Sep 28, 2012 at 12:49 am
Waltyss,I rest my case.Nanu Nanu,man your so weak.
76 gman // Sep 28, 2012 at 1:01 am
Your like a stalker and I think your starting to creep people out.
77 Frances Bula // Sep 28, 2012 at 7:53 am
To all my blog readers, I apologize for the quality of the debate we see here in the comments above. I’m sure both gman and waltsyss will come to their senses soon and realize they sound like four-year-olds.
I realize it’s a turn-off for many of you — that’s what you tell me in private e-mails, anyway, when the level of silliness gets too high.
On another note, can we get the spelling and punctuation right when we’re dishing out childish insults? It’s “You’re a stalker” and “your a stalker.” And it should be “Good night, Mork, (comma needed before adding the descriptor) my friend” not “Good night, Mork my friend.”
78 waltyss // Sep 28, 2012 at 11:54 am
Frances, I take your point.
However, was it a typo or am I missing something when you say “It’s “You’re a stalker” and “your a stalker”? Did you mean to say “not “your a stalker”.
On the Mork front, while I am sure you have the G&M usage guide, I am not sure I agree with “Good night, Mork, my friend”. A former assistant used to accuse me of inserting commas whenever I breathed when dictating. That is what your suggestion looks like.
79 Ned // Sep 28, 2012 at 4:41 pm
ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha…
Frances is leashing and muzzling the most vicious ones, I see…
Down boy!
80 Nelson100 // Sep 29, 2012 at 8:28 am
In response to boohoo “… or are you just another in the list of people who will mock absolutely anything that comes out of City Hall?”
No, I don’t mock everything that comes out of City Hall. But keep in mind that this is democracy (sorry about that) and citizens are actually allowed to have a say now and then.
To answer your question, I think the task force will be pre-programmed to recommend exactly whatever Vision wants to do in the first place (like WEMAC) and is therefore a waste of money.
If Vision have decided to do something they may as well just get on with it considering they don’t really care what anyone in the city thinks anyway.
81 Higgins // Sep 29, 2012 at 5:11 pm
Nelson100 #80.
“To answer your question, I think the task force will be pre-programmed to recommend exactly whatever Vision wants to do in the first place (like WEMAC) and is therefore a waste of money. ”
Absolutely right, I’ll second that!
Cheers
82 boohoo // Sep 29, 2012 at 6:23 pm
Nelson,
I’m confused. On the one hand you tell me you aren’t someone who would mock everything coming out of City Hall, yet on the other you tell me Vision will corrupt the process to get whatever they want and that they’ll do whatever they want regardless of what people think.
That sure sounds like the latter but you want to pretend to appear like the former? I’m not sure…
83 Nelson100 // Sep 30, 2012 at 5:10 am
To Boohoo #82. For the record I support the bike lanes and the bike sharing program. I’m in favour of the thin streets strategy. But I continue to believe that Vision has an obvious problem with democratic engagement of the citizens of Vancouver. Believe me, I’m not alone in that viewpoint, far from it.
84 Boohoo // Sep 30, 2012 at 8:40 am
Problem with engagement and will use corruption to get what they want are two very different things….
85 waltyss // Sep 30, 2012 at 3:35 pm
When my kids were little, they constantly accused me of not listening to them. What it meant was that I didn’t agree to let them do what they wanted. By their logic, I only listened to them when I let them do what they wanted.
It seems some of this complaining that the current administration doesn’t listen is just a wider version of the same sentiment. We elect politicians to make decisions on our behalf and pray that they make them in our best interests. We know when we elect them that they come with preconceived notions that either agree with us or they are a mix of things we agree with and others we don’t and that on balance we see as preferable to their opponents.
If we hate them from day 1 or they make enough decisions that go contrary to our views, we vote against them in the next election.
When it comes to public hearings, the best one can really hope for is that we or others will say something sufficiently persuasive or new, that it will sway their opinion. This does not happen all that often as most public hearings are mostly a kibuki play where the usual suspects play out their predictable roles. Is this not listening? I guess it is but in that theatre, does anyone really even expect to be listened to? And can someone name me one political party that “listens” in that sense other than a political party you agree with.
86 Nelson100 // Oct 1, 2012 at 3:39 am
To Boohoo #84 who said anything about anyone “using corruption to get what they want …”? You might have me mixed up with another poster.
I’m the person stating “Vision has an obvious problem with democratic engagement of the citizens of Vancouver.” I’ll leave it at that.
87 Nelson100 // Oct 1, 2012 at 4:10 am
To waltyss #85 – I appreciate that the Vision perspective on public hearings is as you describe. Attendees at public hearings are basically children complaining that they don’t get what they want. Politicians are elected to make decision on our behalf so what is the point of public hearings?
Where I believe Vision is very different from other political entities is this complete lack of understanding of the democratic process. Compare our city council to the federal government. Government bills are debated first in committees. They utlimatley make it into the House of Commons. During the course of these debates the bills are significantly, sometimes radically changed. Some bills pass, some don’t. Fierce debates sometimes rage in the press and in the public. But the debates matter. This is good and healthy. To believe in democracy means believing deeply that society as a whole make better decisions than individuals, even if the democratic process sometimes gets loud and messy.
What worries me most about Vision is that public hearings (even attended by armies of angry citizens) NEVER make them change. Not one iota. Whatever this small group of individuals has proposed is considered by them so perfect that it needs no feedback, refinement or improvement from the outside world (well, perhaps except for the development community but I won’t go there).
To the Vision bloggers on this site primed to go on a defensive attack whenever criticized, take a bit of advice. Don’t send me a series of blistering responses. Just for once try to listen to these comments and do a little reflection. It’s called listening. Try it.
88 boohoo // Oct 1, 2012 at 7:52 am
Nelson,
You also said
‘ I think the task force will be pre-programmed to recommend exactly whatever Vision wants to do in the first place (like WEMAC) and is therefore a waste of money. ‘
which sure sounds like you think they are corrupt. If not, please explain.
As for your ‘vision bloggers’ comment, ugh. So predictable.
89 boohoo // Oct 1, 2012 at 9:00 am
Also your nod to the Harper government. LOL. Omnibus bill much?
90 waltyss // Oct 1, 2012 at 9:51 am
nelson, I appreciate your point although I did not say or mean to suggest that the current administration views its citizens as children. That is your take.
As for examples of democracy at senior levels of government, I would not go there. At the provincial level, the government waited to the last minute to introduce several important bills and then cut off debate. You will have noticed that they cancelled the fall sitting of the legislature. Hardly models of democracy.
The feds? Well, as boohoo mentionned there are the infamous omnibus bills. You may also recall the prime minister proroguing Parliament because he was worried he might be defeated. Moreover since winning a majority (with < 40% of the popular vote, but that is our system) the prime minister has taken not listening to other voices to new heights (or lows depending on one's perspective). Again, hardly a model of parliamentary democracy where open and full debate occurs.
Overall in my opinion, has Vision not listened in that they have been less than open to other points of view? Yes.
Are they appreciably worse than their predecessors or other levels of government? No
Is this a "good thing"? No.
91 Nelson100 // Oct 4, 2012 at 9:02 am
In response to Boohoo 88. My comment on WEMAC was not intended to imply corruption. Rather it was simply meant to imply the Vision had clearly already made up their minds on related issues in advance and were not genuinely seeking public input. WEMAC was a quasi democratic performance using hand picked unelected candidates in weak attempt to validate some highly unpopular decisions in the West End.
To your comment 89 I’m not a supporter of the Harper Omnibus bill. It shows the same disrespect for democracy I’ve spoken of. For Vision supporters unhappy about the Omnibus bill, I’d suggest using the perspective of the bill to understand better why the democratic processes need to be respected. Even in circumstances when one believes a political decision is being rammed through for all the right reasons (as I’m sure Harper does).
If a politican’s viewpoint is so narrow that one automatically classifies all opponents as either professional lobbyists, fat civil servants, environmental crackpots (Harper) or whiners, f*cking hacks, condo owners, NIMBY’s (Vision), the point of democracy is equally missed.
92 Chris Keam // Oct 4, 2012 at 10:59 pm
“How did it come about that SO MANY cities in North America are jamming bike lanes right through the middle of town. Did they ALL just happen to realize what a wondrous idea they are? Do they ALL suddenly have overwhelming traffic problems that MUST be solved NOW all at the same point in time?”
I would say that scenario is more accurate and believable than a worldwide conspiracy to put in bike lanes.
Not sure why some are so afraid of a world without borders. We’re all in this together, to quote Red Green.
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