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	<title>Comments on: Vancouver lends $100 million to keep Olympic village going</title>
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	<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/vancouver-lends-100-million-to-keep-olympic-village-going/</link>
	<description>Vancouver city life and politics</description>
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		<title>By: Alvaro</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/vancouver-lends-100-million-to-keep-olympic-village-going/comment-page-1/#comment-1391</link>
		<dc:creator>Alvaro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 04:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=572#comment-1391</guid>
		<description>Wagamuffin, I think you&#039;re absolutely right. This deal may taste bitter to many people, but the fact is that it&#039;s been done. By committing to 2010, Vancouver NEEDS to finish what it started, for the good of everyone concerned. It is essential for every Olympic venture that the atheletes&#039; village be completed before the actual start date. What are we going to do, host them at Best Westerns?

The point is that the village needs to be built on time. The alternative is too disastrous to contemplate. How much of a laughingstock on the international stage would our humble city be if we couldn&#039;t even provide the athletes (who are, after all, pretty much foreign delegates) with something that EVERY COUNTRY who wins the Olympic bid is expected to provide? 

Extra spending on an athletes&#039; village is not something &quot;extra&quot; tacked on to the bill. In camera or not, it would have had to be done anyway, if that meant being able to complete everything in time. Can we please stop panicking whenever Mom and Dad happen to decide on something for the good of the family in private? There are no fascist undertones here. This is just plain common sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wagamuffin, I think you&#8217;re absolutely right. This deal may taste bitter to many people, but the fact is that it&#8217;s been done. By committing to 2010, Vancouver NEEDS to finish what it started, for the good of everyone concerned. It is essential for every Olympic venture that the atheletes&#8217; village be completed before the actual start date. What are we going to do, host them at Best Westerns?</p>
<p>The point is that the village needs to be built on time. The alternative is too disastrous to contemplate. How much of a laughingstock on the international stage would our humble city be if we couldn&#8217;t even provide the athletes (who are, after all, pretty much foreign delegates) with something that EVERY COUNTRY who wins the Olympic bid is expected to provide? </p>
<p>Extra spending on an athletes&#8217; village is not something &#8220;extra&#8221; tacked on to the bill. In camera or not, it would have had to be done anyway, if that meant being able to complete everything in time. Can we please stop panicking whenever Mom and Dad happen to decide on something for the good of the family in private? There are no fascist undertones here. This is just plain common sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Wagamuffin</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/vancouver-lends-100-million-to-keep-olympic-village-going/comment-page-1/#comment-1219</link>
		<dc:creator>Wagamuffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 08:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=572#comment-1219</guid>
		<description>The choices are clear: 

A) Cancel the project. Cancel the Olympics. Put an immediate stop to all the infrastructure projects that employ all those people in those nice, high paying jobs. Ensure that people are put out of work. Make sure the world understands that we are absolutely incapable of working through tough times without tearing each other apart. Hunker down for a few years (or more) with a can of beans, a tarpaulin and some matches. And pray to the deity of your choice.

Or...


B) Finish the project, hold the Olympics, convert the project into its intended use of market and social housing, leverage our city&#039;s triumph and &quot;can-do&quot; profile in order to attract more investors and business folks who will provide more well paying jobs in things like infrastructure and IT, gamer jobs etc. etc. etc.

Time is of the essence. Are we going to shred this city&#039;s reputation, sow deeper seeds of fear and also try to find a new contractor to finish this job in a year? By the way, I understand from Jeff Lee&#039;s article in today&#039;s Sun that Millenium does not get a farthing/sous/drachma unless or until they finish the project.

So, what&#039;s it gonna be, people?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The choices are clear: </p>
<p>A) Cancel the project. Cancel the Olympics. Put an immediate stop to all the infrastructure projects that employ all those people in those nice, high paying jobs. Ensure that people are put out of work. Make sure the world understands that we are absolutely incapable of working through tough times without tearing each other apart. Hunker down for a few years (or more) with a can of beans, a tarpaulin and some matches. And pray to the deity of your choice.</p>
<p>Or&#8230;</p>
<p>B) Finish the project, hold the Olympics, convert the project into its intended use of market and social housing, leverage our city&#8217;s triumph and &#8220;can-do&#8221; profile in order to attract more investors and business folks who will provide more well paying jobs in things like infrastructure and IT, gamer jobs etc. etc. etc.</p>
<p>Time is of the essence. Are we going to shred this city&#8217;s reputation, sow deeper seeds of fear and also try to find a new contractor to finish this job in a year? By the way, I understand from Jeff Lee&#8217;s article in today&#8217;s Sun that Millenium does not get a farthing/sous/drachma unless or until they finish the project.</p>
<p>So, what&#8217;s it gonna be, people?</p>
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		<title>By: TOM</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/vancouver-lends-100-million-to-keep-olympic-village-going/comment-page-1/#comment-1216</link>
		<dc:creator>TOM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 06:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=572#comment-1216</guid>
		<description>Heres the bigger question.Did the NPA or anyone involved in the NPA or the Peter Ladner for mayor campaign receive any contributions from anyone connected to the Olympics,Millinnium or Fortess? Just have that question answered and we will know how far this goes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heres the bigger question.Did the NPA or anyone involved in the NPA or the Peter Ladner for mayor campaign receive any contributions from anyone connected to the Olympics,Millinnium or Fortess? Just have that question answered and we will know how far this goes.</p>
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		<title>By: A. G. Tsakumis</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/vancouver-lends-100-million-to-keep-olympic-village-going/comment-page-1/#comment-1215</link>
		<dc:creator>A. G. Tsakumis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 05:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=572#comment-1215</guid>
		<description>Right, so back to some points:

1) Wagatoast and muffin raise excellent points...but will we get any answers?  I think not.

2) This whole mess is taking on a life of it&#039;s own.  Regardless of political motivations, Judy Rogers has a whole lot to answer for...she micromanages everything.

3) Sources at the city tell me that Estelle Lo is gone and has about two weeks left, if that.  I have no idea why Peter continues to say that her employment status hasn&#039;t changed.  The worst kept secret in the world is that she was not happy with the arrangement with respect to commitments for the Olympics.

4) Think about what better a province and city we&#039;d have if $2 billion was spent feeding the hungry; housing the homeless; curing the addicted; healing the sick (mentally and physically)...it&#039;s, frankly, sickening when you think about it.

5) For the last month, The Nutty Mayor hasn&#039;t been able to keep his mouth shut...infrastructure funds for Skytrain; the Grits convention; pushing (not just figuratively) his CAST fantasy (in whatever metamorphosis it sits as today)...but not a word about $100 million dollar loan facility to a private company.

6) Here&#039; s what the electorate will remember going into the voting booth:  

(a) The PEFund was used as a loan base to cash up a developer--it has become a private bank of sorts, in a downward spiral of an economy, where everyone is cutting and slashing, be it corporations of families.

(b) While the city may own the land still (as a joint-venture partner would, with the builder paying the soft costs), how much of the $750 million (sub total) are we responsible for if anyone over at Millennium chokes over eggnog not to long from now?  

The precedent is not a good one:  Any city credit or equity can be used to facilitate the bailout of any de facto JV partner the city might be engaged with.

Someone needs to revisit the covenants of how staff operates.

And that should begin with two senior firings.

Even if the economy was buoyant, that money belongs to the people of Vancouver.

This was not a garden variety major decision, notwithstanding the risk to value ratio.

The city is aching for help in almost every neighbourhood.  We could find money, we were told, for a child advocate, or more police, but we popped up $100 million like we were shooting fish in a barrel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, so back to some points:</p>
<p>1) Wagatoast and muffin raise excellent points&#8230;but will we get any answers?  I think not.</p>
<p>2) This whole mess is taking on a life of it&#8217;s own.  Regardless of political motivations, Judy Rogers has a whole lot to answer for&#8230;she micromanages everything.</p>
<p>3) Sources at the city tell me that Estelle Lo is gone and has about two weeks left, if that.  I have no idea why Peter continues to say that her employment status hasn&#8217;t changed.  The worst kept secret in the world is that she was not happy with the arrangement with respect to commitments for the Olympics.</p>
<p>4) Think about what better a province and city we&#8217;d have if $2 billion was spent feeding the hungry; housing the homeless; curing the addicted; healing the sick (mentally and physically)&#8230;it&#8217;s, frankly, sickening when you think about it.</p>
<p>5) For the last month, The Nutty Mayor hasn&#8217;t been able to keep his mouth shut&#8230;infrastructure funds for Skytrain; the Grits convention; pushing (not just figuratively) his CAST fantasy (in whatever metamorphosis it sits as today)&#8230;but not a word about $100 million dollar loan facility to a private company.</p>
<p>6) Here&#8217; s what the electorate will remember going into the voting booth:  </p>
<p>(a) The PEFund was used as a loan base to cash up a developer&#8211;it has become a private bank of sorts, in a downward spiral of an economy, where everyone is cutting and slashing, be it corporations of families.</p>
<p>(b) While the city may own the land still (as a joint-venture partner would, with the builder paying the soft costs), how much of the $750 million (sub total) are we responsible for if anyone over at Millennium chokes over eggnog not to long from now?  </p>
<p>The precedent is not a good one:  Any city credit or equity can be used to facilitate the bailout of any de facto JV partner the city might be engaged with.</p>
<p>Someone needs to revisit the covenants of how staff operates.</p>
<p>And that should begin with two senior firings.</p>
<p>Even if the economy was buoyant, that money belongs to the people of Vancouver.</p>
<p>This was not a garden variety major decision, notwithstanding the risk to value ratio.</p>
<p>The city is aching for help in almost every neighbourhood.  We could find money, we were told, for a child advocate, or more police, but we popped up $100 million like we were shooting fish in a barrel.</p>
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		<title>By: fbula</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/vancouver-lends-100-million-to-keep-olympic-village-going/comment-page-1/#comment-1182</link>
		<dc:creator>fbula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 17:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=572#comment-1182</guid>
		<description>Hello all,

As the owner of this blog, I would like to add my request here that people refrain from slagging each other&#039;s personalities or typographical idiosyncrasies. There are lots of interesting issues to discuss here. We don&#039;t need to get into playground name-calling.

Yours in harmony,

Frances</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello all,</p>
<p>As the owner of this blog, I would like to add my request here that people refrain from slagging each other&#8217;s personalities or typographical idiosyncrasies. There are lots of interesting issues to discuss here. We don&#8217;t need to get into playground name-calling.</p>
<p>Yours in harmony,</p>
<p>Frances</p>
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		<title>By: In the know</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/vancouver-lends-100-million-to-keep-olympic-village-going/comment-page-1/#comment-1181</link>
		<dc:creator>In the know</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=572#comment-1181</guid>
		<description>One thing to note, Tim Stevenson did request prior to the Oct 14th meeting that the session be opened and NOT be held in-camera. And again after the meeting he again requested that there be transparency, Both times he was ruled out of order by the NPA. 
And I do know that there is more to come on this story, that will place solid blame on the NPA. But that will probably hit the news, let&#039;s say Thursday, while Peter Ladner is pulling pints at the Cambie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing to note, Tim Stevenson did request prior to the Oct 14th meeting that the session be opened and NOT be held in-camera. And again after the meeting he again requested that there be transparency, Both times he was ruled out of order by the NPA.<br />
And I do know that there is more to come on this story, that will place solid blame on the NPA. But that will probably hit the news, let&#8217;s say Thursday, while Peter Ladner is pulling pints at the Cambie.</p>
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		<title>By: Wagamuffin</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/vancouver-lends-100-million-to-keep-olympic-village-going/comment-page-1/#comment-1179</link>
		<dc:creator>Wagamuffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 16:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=572#comment-1179</guid>
		<description>It appears that the answers are in the Sun today (yes, I aways believe everything I read)...

As for coming clean, and if they are so brave and really have the courage of their convictions, why didn&#039;t one of the Vision counsellors break the details as they see them?  Could it be because this project is covered off 10 ways to Friday?

As for Raymond and Estelle&#039;s exact relationship, I will leave that to you to spin a little bit longer. I understand she is enjoying a nice holiday in Hong Kong and won&#039;t be returning until the day after the election...timing is everything, yes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears that the answers are in the Sun today (yes, I aways believe everything I read)&#8230;</p>
<p>As for coming clean, and if they are so brave and really have the courage of their convictions, why didn&#8217;t one of the Vision counsellors break the details as they see them?  Could it be because this project is covered off 10 ways to Friday?</p>
<p>As for Raymond and Estelle&#8217;s exact relationship, I will leave that to you to spin a little bit longer. I understand she is enjoying a nice holiday in Hong Kong and won&#8217;t be returning until the day after the election&#8230;timing is everything, yes?</p>
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		<title>By: Wagatoast</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/vancouver-lends-100-million-to-keep-olympic-village-going/comment-page-1/#comment-1178</link>
		<dc:creator>Wagatoast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 15:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=572#comment-1178</guid>
		<description>Wagamuffin, all of the Vision councillors were available on the steps of City Hall at 5:45 last night to answer questions from the media. Raymond Louie went on Christy Clark yesterday for 30 minutes. We&#039;re still waiting for Capri, Ball, BC Lee, and Anton to at least show their face in public. Nice to see they&#039;re letting Peter take the heat while they scramble to stay on council. 

Perhaps that&#039;s why Anton&#039;s NW ads don&#039;t mention the words &quot;Peter Ladner&quot;?

And in all of the &quot;Vision and NPA all voted together so they&#039;re all in this,&quot; there is one important distinction to make, which Frances makes in her article today. Estelle Lo has allegedly been fired/resigned over her concerns about the project - concerns which were not made at the time of the in-camera meeting.

So the whole &quot;why didn&#039;t Raymond Louie ask questions about Estelle&quot; is a red herring - there was no reason to believe anything was wrong, as staff presented a proposal that all were presumed to be believe had the full backing of staff.

Vision is prepared to revisit it based on that info. The NPA stick by it, despite the fact that there could be major flaws . So who is being more prudent handling such a deal? It&#039;s sure not our Labour Relations rep Elizabeth Ball. 

NPA, own up to the fact that there are details that need to be made public. When Gary Mason, Miro Cernetig, and the Vancouver Sun Editorial Board - hardly the Vision fan section - all call for it to come out into the open, you know it&#039;s time to end the secrecy.

the longer Peter decides to say &quot;don&#039;t worry taxpayers, I know better than you do,&quot; the more political this will be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wagamuffin, all of the Vision councillors were available on the steps of City Hall at 5:45 last night to answer questions from the media. Raymond Louie went on Christy Clark yesterday for 30 minutes. We&#8217;re still waiting for Capri, Ball, BC Lee, and Anton to at least show their face in public. Nice to see they&#8217;re letting Peter take the heat while they scramble to stay on council. </p>
<p>Perhaps that&#8217;s why Anton&#8217;s NW ads don&#8217;t mention the words &#8220;Peter Ladner&#8221;?</p>
<p>And in all of the &#8220;Vision and NPA all voted together so they&#8217;re all in this,&#8221; there is one important distinction to make, which Frances makes in her article today. Estelle Lo has allegedly been fired/resigned over her concerns about the project &#8211; concerns which were not made at the time of the in-camera meeting.</p>
<p>So the whole &#8220;why didn&#8217;t Raymond Louie ask questions about Estelle&#8221; is a red herring &#8211; there was no reason to believe anything was wrong, as staff presented a proposal that all were presumed to be believe had the full backing of staff.</p>
<p>Vision is prepared to revisit it based on that info. The NPA stick by it, despite the fact that there could be major flaws . So who is being more prudent handling such a deal? It&#8217;s sure not our Labour Relations rep Elizabeth Ball. </p>
<p>NPA, own up to the fact that there are details that need to be made public. When Gary Mason, Miro Cernetig, and the Vancouver Sun Editorial Board &#8211; hardly the Vision fan section &#8211; all call for it to come out into the open, you know it&#8217;s time to end the secrecy.</p>
<p>the longer Peter decides to say &#8220;don&#8217;t worry taxpayers, I know better than you do,&#8221; the more political this will be.</p>
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		<title>By: A. G. Tsakumis</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/vancouver-lends-100-million-to-keep-olympic-village-going/comment-page-1/#comment-1163</link>
		<dc:creator>A. G. Tsakumis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 09:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=572#comment-1163</guid>
		<description>ptak604:

Really??  The theory that Sam would have the most to &quot;gain&quot; has been &quot;discredited&quot;?

By whom?  You are a fool, if not entertaining. This was just a royal mess accidentally thrust upon us by an unassuming council who were more hoodwinked than politically motivated, eh?

You&#039;re bile for me is so utterly palpable (and hilarious), but does not add a stitch to anything you&#039;ve written here or on any other blog you&#039;ve littered with your bromide.

If you don&#039;t like my columns, please don&#039;t read them.  I started off with 211 people on my distribution list a few years back.  It currently sits at almost 27,000 and I spend most of Friday afternoons and Saturday mornings returning email from some of them.  Judging from much of your other comments on this blog and others, you wouldn&#039;t like them either:  Sensible, caring, uninterested in political labels and reasonable, they make some very pithy comments indeed.  

Of course, this is nothing you&#039;d understand.

As for any of the other nuggets of wisdom you offer, perhaps you might want not to hang on  your arguments like a drunk hangs on to a lamp post--more for support than for illumination.

Insulting me or what I write, or even how I write it, does nothing except show that you can&#039;t get past me to deal with the pertinent issues I have raised.  

You&#039;re weak, feeble and a charlatan.

In your puerile ramble, you&#039;ve missed several points which make it obvious that a completely uncredited story was allowed to run front page yesterday.  Presumably, the editor of the Mop and Pail would have asked questions...wonder what kind of credible &quot;source&quot; would have had enough horsepower to have an editor allow such a story forward, without one named source in the actual print copy, not one?

Instead of wasting Frances&#039; time, why don&#039;t you either come out from behind your fantasists lair  and email me directly at : agtsakumis@shaw.ca

C&#039;mon, show us that you have anything more than the spine of a gastropod.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ptak604:</p>
<p>Really??  The theory that Sam would have the most to &#8220;gain&#8221; has been &#8220;discredited&#8221;?</p>
<p>By whom?  You are a fool, if not entertaining. This was just a royal mess accidentally thrust upon us by an unassuming council who were more hoodwinked than politically motivated, eh?</p>
<p>You&#8217;re bile for me is so utterly palpable (and hilarious), but does not add a stitch to anything you&#8217;ve written here or on any other blog you&#8217;ve littered with your bromide.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t like my columns, please don&#8217;t read them.  I started off with 211 people on my distribution list a few years back.  It currently sits at almost 27,000 and I spend most of Friday afternoons and Saturday mornings returning email from some of them.  Judging from much of your other comments on this blog and others, you wouldn&#8217;t like them either:  Sensible, caring, uninterested in political labels and reasonable, they make some very pithy comments indeed.  </p>
<p>Of course, this is nothing you&#8217;d understand.</p>
<p>As for any of the other nuggets of wisdom you offer, perhaps you might want not to hang on  your arguments like a drunk hangs on to a lamp post&#8211;more for support than for illumination.</p>
<p>Insulting me or what I write, or even how I write it, does nothing except show that you can&#8217;t get past me to deal with the pertinent issues I have raised.  </p>
<p>You&#8217;re weak, feeble and a charlatan.</p>
<p>In your puerile ramble, you&#8217;ve missed several points which make it obvious that a completely uncredited story was allowed to run front page yesterday.  Presumably, the editor of the Mop and Pail would have asked questions&#8230;wonder what kind of credible &#8220;source&#8221; would have had enough horsepower to have an editor allow such a story forward, without one named source in the actual print copy, not one?</p>
<p>Instead of wasting Frances&#8217; time, why don&#8217;t you either come out from behind your fantasists lair  and email me directly at : <a href="mailto:agtsakumis@shaw.ca">agtsakumis@shaw.ca</a></p>
<p>C&#8217;mon, show us that you have anything more than the spine of a gastropod.</p>
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		<title>By: ptak604</title>
		<link>http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/vancouver-lends-100-million-to-keep-olympic-village-going/comment-page-1/#comment-1159</link>
		<dc:creator>ptak604</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 08:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.francesbula.com/?p=572#comment-1159</guid>
		<description>I can tell you were aiming at a clear, simple series of questions by the fact you surrounded them with a screen&#039;s worth of useless bullshit (although in fairness, your post was substantially better written, and came to the point much faster, than any of your 24 columns). 

Your stunning &quot;it was Sam what done it!&quot; theory was interesting the first time I heard it on the bus, but half the politicos and activists in Vancouver have driven it into the ground over the course of the last couple of days. If you&#039;ve thought of something, take it as a given that thousands of much smarter people have already done so. 

And as a note, you have no style of any kind, but you do have something this city desperately needs. In such bleak and anxious times, why hold back your silence?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can tell you were aiming at a clear, simple series of questions by the fact you surrounded them with a screen&#8217;s worth of useless bullshit (although in fairness, your post was substantially better written, and came to the point much faster, than any of your 24 columns). </p>
<p>Your stunning &#8220;it was Sam what done it!&#8221; theory was interesting the first time I heard it on the bus, but half the politicos and activists in Vancouver have driven it into the ground over the course of the last couple of days. If you&#8217;ve thought of something, take it as a given that thousands of much smarter people have already done so. </p>
<p>And as a note, you have no style of any kind, but you do have something this city desperately needs. In such bleak and anxious times, why hold back your silence?</p>
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